- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
- cross-posted to:
- europe@feddit.org
The products covered by the obligation to repair currently include:
- washing machines and washer-dryers
- dishwashers
- refrigerators
- electronic displays
- welding equipment
- servers and data storage products
- mobile phones, cordless phones and tablets
- tumble dryers
- e-bikes and e-scooters batteries (from 18 February 2027)
- local space heaters
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There is no repair without firmware. All hardware needs to be documented and ship with source. It hasn’t been enough to be able to buy physical parts since perhaps the 80s or 90s. Everything is controlled by software. Without that right to repair is a joke. Meanwhile the surveillance industry and their well greased govt supporters are trying to lock down software. Can’t have it both ways.
Amazing!!
Do cars next!!
I counter !fuckcars@lemmy.world
They pass dystopian chat control with one hand and does this with the other.
Well when you think about it this is just another form of control over businesses. That’s equally authoritarian.
The EU is a complex organization with different power poles and a variety of different interests. Add to that members of parliament do not always understand everything they vote for. And yes: you get bad things, nonsensical rules, but also good things.
Overall, I would say it’s positive, but when it’s bad it can be brutal.
Edit: I forgot to mention lobbying! Brussels is full of lobbyists!
Seriously, talk about major whiplash with how they do things lmao
All those people in Brussels are out of touch. They live in their own world.
If only they could have done this with games.
Every program is open source
Hopefully, malicious compliance loopholes will be fixed eventually
When the EU mandated USB-C, Apple included a bullshit adapter so they could keep their proprietary charger. But of course if someone with an iPhone was visiting my house they wouldn’t have an adapter with them. Eventually the EU bitch-slapped Apple over that nonsense and now iPhones have USB-C for charging.
So, companies will definitely try to weasel out of serving consumers, and the EU will eventually sort them out.
Unfortunately there are some exemptions. Flexible / folding displays are not covered. Fitness trackers and watches are not covered.
There is also a battery regulation coming in next year to require phone batteries to be replaceable with no tools but that has loop holes too - long life batteries aren’t covered, IP67 rated phones aren’t covered. So you can bet your boots those two reasons will be what makers use to bullshit their way out of it.
Those aren’t loopholes though, they’re part of the legislation. Phone makers don’t need to “bullshit” their way out of anything if they meet the criteria, which almost every mobile phone released these days does - making the regulation pretty pointless lol
Flexible / folding displays are not covered
So that’s why after almost a decade, only now Apple is ready to launch their foldable
Fitness trackers would be hard to make them easy repairable, when most of them is waterproof
Gaskets are a thing. Many, many, many watches would brag about their water resistance up to 10, 50, 100 meters depth. So I don’t think the excuse is credible.
Having those rules is much better than not having them. Also, IP rating is not enough, batteries also need to have sufficient load cycles. So if it forces them to use only long life batteries that reduces the need for battery repkacements and is already something.
Well it’s a start.
Also software… I would love to have regulations that make it clear that the root of trust on all devices need to start by the owner of the device, not by the vendor… That would allow the end users to repair the software on their devices… Replacing it with whatever else they want. Next would be to provide hardware documentation to the owners to program their own devices… I don’t expect that to happen, but I can dream.
But not games…
Ah fuck boys, we enacted this landmark repairability legislation for daily use machines, but forgot to include video games.
For real though do you mean game consoles, the software?
They’re referencing the stop killing games initiative that was turned down recently. It is akin to this but the software version.
Games industry is somehow infinitely more corrupt.
Water kettle stopped working, has fucking temper proof triangle head screws so can’t even open it without having to buy a special screwdriver bit. name and shame : kitchenaid
I can go one further, if you ever want to do a warrenty claim with coffeemate, regardless of how small, they require you to cut the power cord.
I bought a cheap coffeemate coffee maker, and the anti-splash valve that prevents it from brewing fell off, and I lost the o-ring that was part of it as a result.
After 3 different contact points with coffee mate as their public listed email only warranty contact was incorrect and then was bounced to a couple more emails, they agreed it was a manufacturer problem, and that it was covered, but they wanted me to cut the power cord and show proof that the unit was no longer functional, because instead of sending me a 10¢ if that o ring, they wanted me to destroy a other than that one comp a perfectly functional unit, so they could send a whole new unit in it’s place.
I bought a cheap oring set on amazon, so now I have more than I would ever need of orings but, at least it’s less wasteful.
Hold on, don’t they know a cut cord can be soldered back together? You don’t even need image generators to fake breaking it…
yea I found it weird as well. I assume they figure most people don’t have the skills to just connect it again.
When I was looking into it, it’s common practice for kitchen appliance warranties to have that as a requirement for warranty support when they are giving a replacement, likely they are trying to disincentivize someone getting a replacement for a minor issue, and then reselling one of the two appliances they have to make a profit, which I do understand for replacements but… in my case why not just send the replacement part… it likely could even go via an envelope and only pay the price of a stamp.
Theres no way paying to send a whole coffee maker is cheaper than sending a o-ring or a washer…
One of the few good uses for AI, to generate photos or video of the device with the cord cut
Mine had Philips screws and was easy to open, but the switch that was broken proved impossible to find as a spare part. It’s a shame that I have to bin something that should’ve been easy to repair.
Most of the time it’s not about repairability it’s about mitigation of responsibility. If they make it difficult to get into and you do it anyway then burn your house down because you removed the thermistor they have a better case in court.
That’s the thing about repairing things at home or anywhere else. You need tools to do so and more than just a screwdriver and a pair of pliers. You often special tools. You can get a set of triangle bits for maybe 4 to 5 euros and you will have them for life. So don’t be a cheap. Either fix that kettle yourself, pay someone with the skills and tools to fix it, or buy a new one. But don’t whinge about not having tools.
And let’s also be honest. Some things need to be tamper proof. Most of you ain’t smart enough and experienced enough to play with things that can injure/kill you or others, no matter how many youtube videos you watch.
A eater kettle does not have that much stuff inside that it should be tamlre proof for fuck’s sake. It can use normal screws like phillips, hex or torx.
if its an electric kettle, I have to disagree. Those have the equivalent of a stovetop going through them when in use, and have a degree of water protection required. I heavily disagree with easy to access and remove screws on those. I still think they should be consumer repairable but, I think buying a set of P screwdrivers or whatever style they choose is a more than secure enough method of protecting people who don’t realize what they are doing.
Being said, many things that do have tamper or non-standard screws I think shouldn’t like the iphones, but I think appliances that have a burner element or a higher power draw should remain one of them.
Yeah but if you’re opening high power stuff while it’s plugged in thats on you. I get tamper protection on power supplies and stuff where you could get shocked by a capacitor. But a big heater not plugged in is harmless
Even if it’s unplugged first, I strongly disagree with the insinuation that since it’s unplugged it’s harmless. This is a device that uses the same amount of power draw as a stove top and has water contact as part of it’s daily use. If someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing decides they want to access it, and does it incorrectly, it has the capability of burning your house down.
Having a standard screw on it like a Phillips or a regular screwdriver significantly lowers the barrier of entry in allowing someone who doesn’t know what they’re doing to work on the equipment, which is why I think it’s fair that a component that has that capability has a something like a hex or a p bit. Those are both something that are not hard to obtain, but also something that you likely won’t find just randomly laying around in your house unless you already regularly work on devices or equipment.
Sorry but as long as it’s unplugged it’s literally just a bunch of wire. Wire by itself even a heating coil has no way of burning your house down while unplugged.
I think you may have misread or misinterpreted the comment. Probably my fault for not making it clear, the “harmless” nature is removed when its plugged back in again, not during the repair. It’s a different point of the repair process.
But unless you understand the electrical components and the rules and codes in their use for consumer safety, maybe, just maybe, it should be a little bit difficult to gain access to if your 10 years old.
Go buy some bloody tools and quit your whinging.
Yeah sure I’m gonna buy stupid triangle screwdrivers so my nonexistent 10yo cannot open the heater.
If the said 10yo knows where the tools are it does not matter what kind of screws there are. It just makes me have to buy stupid tools I will only ever use for one appliance.
If it bothers you, buy a thread gauge and replace the triangle head with something you like better.
I dont have such a kettle the issue is when you buy the tools to rekove the screws it males no sense to bother changing the screws anymore
Yeah, it’s more of a personal preference thing.
I would recommend against doing that to begin with since plug in kitchen appliances especially need to respond in a safe way to shorts and even the basic barrier to entry that some weird screw presents is enough to make a person who might inadvertently kill themselves or someone else slow their roll.
But you can for a very low price acquire the tools to allow you to open many objects.
I like this for a lot of obvious reasons.
I worry about corporate malicious compliance though where the cost of a replacement part costs as much as the unit or near it to make up for lost revenue from selling whole units.
They could even get to the printer ink model where they sell the initial device for cheap or at a lost with planned obsolescence of parts that almost guarantee a replacement rate.
With this though I think there is legal stance because prohibitively high prices can be used as grounds to say that a product “can’t be repaired”. The legal precedent is there, you can’t just say “technically we give you the option, it’s just $2m”.
I really hope you’re right about this. I’ve lost a lot of trust in legal arguments the last few years.
For things like these I love Europe. For things like Chat Control I hate Europe
I’m noticing cars are not part of the list, despite being smartphones on wheels
Presumably the germans must have lobbied tooth and nails against this.
regulation works.
The “mobile device” one is outdated isn’t it? They added a water proofing exemption to the battery initiative which exempts any product that may be exposed to water, which exempts mobile devices, smart watches and outdoor equipment from needing removable batteries.
I would classify a non-removable battery as the antithesis of repariability as they use single use glues to hold the covers on, and also usually glue components together as well.
Unless they are saying that even with glued components its still easily repairable? but I disagree
The Delegated Act I found says the exception is for
(a) appliances, including wearable devices, specifically designed to operate primarily in an environment that is regularly subject to splashing water, water streams or water immersion, and that are intended to be washable or rinseable
So I don’t think it applies to mobile phones. Or did it get changed again?
Why is bicycle on the list? A bicycle is the epitome of repairability.
Edit: it got enshittified?
Derailleur hangers come to mind, some brands use a different version in the same model lineup and model year. It’s on purpose to confuse an make it difficult for the average rider to DIY.
Also Cannondale, famous for using non-standard parts (and tools) for no apparent reason.
Ok, famous to not buy them then, thanks.
Electric Bike for enshittified
I take it you never heard Van Moof bricked bikes afteir their bankcruptcy?
Edit: and thinking about ebike motors and their parts - bosch has locked down their engines real hard
Some exceptions excluded.
It’s red because there’s nothing forcing bike manufacturers to continue down the path of repairability and outside of the enthusiast community, people might not care much, they’ll just buy what’s cheaper.
Did you ever repair a bike? Its like every model has its own special tools that you need to get Something unscrewed or pulled of. (You can buy them, though)
Although I do understand the need for some of those special tools. The thing for taking apart the chain comes to mind
Phones still have replaceable batteries? I have a Google Pixel 8. How do I even open that thing let alone replace the battery?
That enforcement only came into effect recently.
You can also buy kits to lift the back of glass sandwich phones, but that isn’t the most straightforward process.
Yes espresso, especially the well known ones(gaggia, rocket, rancilio). They can be repaired!
Well thing is this is not about whether the items are currently repairable, but whether laws require them to be.
At the moment there’s nothing stopping some dipshit from coming up with parts locks on espresso machines the way John Deere does them.
You’re basically describing any of the electronic style coffee machines, good luck repairing a vendor lock-in optimized keurig or nespresso machine that scans your pods to validate their IDs before brewing.
