Remind me how many peace offers Israel made and how many Palestine accepted again. It sucks but you can’t negotiate with an outfit that prefers mutual destruction to coexistence and sadly hamas does just that.

Not saying Israel and the idf are always or always do the right thing but right now it’s protecting it’s citizens and I can’t blame them for that.

Yeah not all of them.

Having security at an event doesn’t make it not be a primarily civilian target. It’s especially ironic that hamas targeted a peace festival that was sympathetic to their cause. I imagine it’s because they don’t want peace

There are plenty of examples. Tel Aviv has dozens of military bases near dense residential areas and even hospitals.

These are not hospitals and elementary schools from which rockets are being launched. They are based near a hospital which eminently sensible for any military that values its soldiers.

Gaza is the 2nd - 3rd most densely populated area in the world, only 12 km in width. It is a concentration camp.

Auschwitz, a famously prolific and reasonably large camp was less than half a kilometer in width. Please don’t cheapen the experience of those rounded up at gunpoint and forced into cattlecars by comparing it to that of people who moved into an area whose inhabitants were forcefully evacuated (Israel forced its own citizens out at gunpoint in 2005. If hamas had any interest in Israel continuing to give them the land they wouldn’t use the land given to them to pull this kind of crap)

And literally nothing of that has anything to do with waht you wrote before.

Correct. It has to do with the thing that I quoted from your comment just before writing it

Again, you are unable or unwilling to accept, that “your side” can also be bad.

Not at all. I’m not a fan of the idf or Israeli government at all. The problem is that despite the fact that they do a lot of bad stuff they’re at least wouldn’t exterminate the other side of they (the other side) laid their weapons down tomorrow. If the idf laid their weapons down we would see more slaughter like October 7th followed by the forces and complete dissolution of the state of Israel. It doesn’t excuse some of the things the idf does but it’s what makes the idf the better of the two for whatever that’s worth.

The Holocaust doesn’t justify violence today, just as the Naqba doens’t justifiy violence today.

The correct. What justifies violence is a valid argument that it’s being done in self defense. And right now Israel definitely has that.

Oh so all those people at the peace rally were not civilians. Cool. I’d also love to know which elementary schools and hospitals Israel is using as a base to launch rockets into … anywhere really. At least now others will see how deluded you are and know not to take anything you say at face value.

your white narrative

Tell the Nazis my narrative is white. Tell the country clubs that banned dogs, blacks, and jews as recently as 60 years ago that my narrative is white. Tell the guy who shot up a synagogue in Pittsburgh and thought Trump was bad because he wasn’t tough on Jews that my narrative isn’t white. It’s amazing how we are somehow both nonwhite outsiders looking to destroy the fabric of society or European imperialists looking to uphold it and it’s whichever one the person viewing us thinks is bad.

noone actually excused those terrorist acts.

In Professor Joseph Massad’s newest article on The Electronic Intifada, he wrote that the attack that occurred in Israel on October 7th was a “stunning victory” and that Hamas’ actions were “astounding,” “awesome,” and “incredible.”

And he doesn’t teach at some no name place either. Dude teaches at Columbia

The one where specifically civilians are targets. The one that that uses hospitals and elementary schools and civilian apartments as rocket launch sites. The one that explicitly calls for the complete destruction of the other state in its charter. Need I go on?

I’m glad we can agree that hamas are terrorists and not an actual military at least

Tbf the idf says they can’t confirm it because the bodies are so thoroughly mangled they couldn’t tell what happened to them

Because the terrorists are specifically targeting civilians whereas Israel is targeting military targets that the terrorists put a bunch of human shields around

Just a quick response to some of these claims from the perspective of Judaism

1. Kill People Who Don’t Listen to Priests-

this isn’t just any guy off the street not listening to some priest. This is about a sage in his own right who actually issues rulings in line with an opinion of his that was rejected by Jewish equivalent of the supreme court

2. Kill Homosexuals-

It’s actually more like “kill men who have been convicted of having sex with other males and btw we only accept testimony from multiple eyewitnesses who saw each other and the same thing at the same time”

3. Death For Hitting Dad-

Only applies if the hit draws blood

4. Death For Cursing Parents-

This requires a very specific formulation to get a conviction

5. Death for fornication-

This is the first one that’s straight up wrong. It falls under death for adultery, the punishment is just harsher because she’s a priest’s daughter and some rabbis say she needs to be fully married for it to apply while others say just betrothed as is the standard status in most cases with punishments for infidelity.

6. Death to followers of other religions-

It’s more like death to those who actively worship other gods. Followers of nontheistic religions, and Muslims would be fine as well as, in some opinions, christians and modalistic Hindus.

7. Kill nonbelievers-

This seems to be more of a one-time royal edict (that didn’t result in anyone dying btw) than an actual prescribed penalty

8. Kill the Entire Town if One Person Worships Another God-

This is an incredible misunderstanding of the text. In Hebrew it is called an “ir hanidachat” and it is only done if the majority of the town has two eyewitnesses testifying that over 50% of the individuals of the town worshipped idols after being warned that doing so carries the death penalty, and only if they were enticed/subverted to do so and only if the subverter/enticer was a group of one or more adult males from that town and a member(s) of the tribe in whose territory the town is and if a caravan sets up camp there and counting them as inhabitants makes it that less than 50% are worshipping idols then that saves the town.

9. Kill Women Who Are Not Virgins On Their Wedding Night

Believe it or not this also falls under adultery. She is only executed if in the course of investigating the monetary claim he makes against her, witnesses come forward and they saw her having sex with another man while betrothed to this man then she is executed.

10. Kill Followers of Other Religions

This sounds kinda like 6 doesn’t it? However in fairness it is discussing something slightly different. While 6 deals with people convicted of worshipping false gods this deals with one who tries to entice others to do so. This actually the only case where we endorse anything resembling entrapment and the Mishna that says so makes it very clear that it’s an exception in this regard rather than the rule. (To clarify “something like entrapment” I mean that thing many people think is entrapment where a police officer pretends to not be an officer and noncoercively offers one the opportunity engage in a crime and then arrests them for doing so)

I should also mention that 1,3,4,5,7?,8, and 9 only apply to Jews while 2,6, and 10 are left to the non Jewish courts outside of the land of israel

Israel are not colonizers though. Israel is one of the indigenous people finally returning to their homeland. You can say they should share and I agree but the immediate attempt at their annihilation right when they were established definitely indicated that many of their neighbors were not keen on sharing nicely. It’s awful that the children in Gaza are suffering but the blame for that lies with the terrorists who use those children as human shields, tore down the infrastructure, and diverted construction materials meant for humanitarian aid to be used to enable further terrorist attacks, not the country that forced it’s own citizens out and left a fully functioning set of infrastructure for the new inhabitants.

Edit- I was hoping to get away from Reddit culture of disagree=downvote and was looking forward to productive respectful discussions here. So far it seems not to be working out but maybe we can still turn it around

Have you ever been there? Do you know what apartheid actually means? Every single Palestinian without citizenship doesn’t have it only because they refused. And furthermore, in 2005 Israel actually forced its own citizens out of the Gaza strip, whole family’s dislocated at gunpoint by their own government. And when the Palestinians moved in, the terrorists among them tore down the infrastructure and somehow convinced their brethren that the Israelis were to blame. Israel is not the one who’s indiscriminately shooting rockets from hospitals and schoolyards. Israel is not the one encouraging citizens to enter houses of worship and go on killing sprees. Israel is not the one who is encouraging and applauding suicide bombers attacking bus stops and pizza shops. Israel is the one who is sending out texts and dropping leaflets warning people to get out of buildings that they suspect are housing military equipment used to attack them before bombing said buildings. It is easily within Israel’s capability set to kill every last Palestinian and I imagine just about any other country put through what Israel’s been put through would be a lot more aggressive. They aren’t always in the right. There are things they have done wrong. But an apartheid state they are not.

Forgot to mention, the terrorists in charge of the Gaza strip also diverted equipment meant to be used for construction and instead chose to use it to dig tunnels to get through to Israel to carry out attacks and kidnappings.

Straight up. Israel and Ukraine are under constant attack these days and absolutely not be criticized for defending themselves even if they don’t always go about it exactly the right way.