After this “fun” little catastrophe of a thread concerning the use of the word “female”, looking at the comment section, it’s painfully obvious that the majority of Lemmy’s userbase are men. That’s not a generalization, that’s a literal fact.
“It’s just a word!”, “Maybe English isn’t their first language!”, and “Overact much?” seem to be the most common replies.
So let’s do what should have been done in the first place and ask women their opinion:
What do you think of the word “female” being used? Especially in the context of the linked post in question? When is the use of the word appropriate vs. not appropriate?
EDIT: I think the post linked got taken down. Good.
In the context of the OOP I think it’s obnoxious, but people who baldly objectify women tend to be obnoxious, so I can’t say I’m surprised. I wish they’d knock it off.
“Female” is appropriate as an adjective: I need a female hose adaptor or My primary care doctor is female or Female cats don’t spray the way male cats do. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any case in which “female” should be used as a noun - except I guess it’s common in healthcare and law enforcement (though still grammatically incorrect).
It seems like “woman” is a hard word to use for some people. I’m not sure why. This also gets into the “woman” vs “girl” thing, which in my view is much more demeaning than “female.” We’re not children for fuck’s sake!
I should mention that some women aren’t bothered by “female” or “girl,” which is completely their prerogative.
“Female” is appropriate as an adjective: I need a female hose adaptor or My primary care doctor is female or Female cats don’t spray the way male cats do. Off the top of my head, I can’t think of any case in which “female” should be used as a noun - except I guess it’s common in healthcare and law enforcement (though still grammatically incorrect).
Absolutely! These examples are absolutely unoffensive in their context. I take no issue with that.
It’s when people defend its usage as a noun where I take issue, and when others use “It’s just a word!” to dismiss concerns about it. Yes, it’s just word! It’s the context that matters!
“Girl” is a entirely different matter, but I guess it comes down to individual preference of the person being referred to. However, I personally don’t love it, and view it as a very outdated word to use with grown adult women. There’s a lot of nuance behind it, definitely.
It seems like “woman” is a hard word to use for some people. I’m not sure why.
It’s funny, because in German, you can’t really do the equivalent to “females”, but some men go to the opposite extreme and call women “Damen” (roughly equal to “ladies”). They tend to present this as being meant to be polite and flattering but it always rubs me the wrong way. Partly because it’s often used by men with questionable opinions about women. And partly because I want to be seen as just a normal woman not some dainty, elegant, always polite picture of perfection.
Though women seem to be divided on whether they mind it or not. I just don’t get what’s so hard about using “women”, especially if you used “men” in the same sentence (or would use it if it was addressed to men). You don’t have to either talk about them like you would about a female animal or like we’re all some unattainable beings.
Women being referred to as ‘females’ makes my skin crawl. I have only encountered this term being used by men who objectify and dehumanise women.
Feeeeeeeemaaaaaaales
Might wanna mention that this is a reference to something and not just someone coming in to be antagonistic.
I see.
Yes I’m referencing the Ferengi from Star Trek. Every time someone says ‘female’ all I can hear is their goblinny little screeches.
You would think that with all the Star Trek memes that get posted on Lemmy somehow this one would be used, right?
It’s fine, guess I was a bit tone deaf. Not everyone watches ST and my intent was probably opaque.
That’s understandable. I guess that was more directed at the men who do share those memes in other places, hoping they can be better allies
Working in the medical field, I hear it a decent amount in appropriate context and it’s often still a little creepy.
It’s still important to acknowledge that the usage in the medical/health sectors is also dehumanizing. It’s so disempowering and alienating.
I work in the health sector not in the US and I would never refer to a patient that way no matter what language I’m speaking.
I believe it is dehumanising. Perhaps a few use it without thinking, but referring to someone or a group as “females” is a tactic frequently used by bigots to make it easier to not have empathy for people.
not a woman and i dont think its exactly a “bad word”, but insistence on using it is just weird. the guy banned on reddit was banned for being combative, it wasnt a poor baby who doesnt speak english inadvertently using an improper term.
Context is important.
At the end of the day, “female” is just a word like any other word. It can certainly be used in a derogatory way (which I think the original Reddit post was) or it can be completely benign.
Generally speaking, when someone precedes “female” with “a” in front of it, I side eye them a little.
I mean, you can say that about any word. That’s kind of the point: context does matter.
Using the world “female” as a noun is often reflective of a person/attitude I do not want to associate with. A lot of it is a symptom of the dehumanization of women, and it makes me nervous to see it.
Had a former friend who start referring to black folks as “the blacks”. Point being: language can be subtle, but very much telling about how people view other humans.
It’s funny how this is apparently a huge problem, but only for english speakers, specifically living in north america.
…how many other languages actually differentiate between woman and female
In Serbian “woman” would translate to “žena”, and “female” to “ženka”, but that word is used exclusively for animals. Using “ženka” for a human outside of a very strictly zoological context where humans are just another type of animal is unheard of, and would sound very bizarre.
One contribution to this being a thing in English (some people calling women females) might be the fact that the word is both a noun and an adjective. In the case of Serbian, “ženka” as female and “mužjak” as male can only mean animals that are female or male. For the adjective (as in “female and male anatomy”) we have separate words that mean something like “womanly and manly anatomy”, so you could never mix the two because one is specifically reserved for animals.
The more you know.
I’m in the military and female/male is used very often instead of woman/man at work. I really haven’t thought much about it until recently and I have made it a point to use man/woman instead of male/female at work. I have never used male/female as a noun outside of work. Any other women in the military have an opinion on this?
I don’t think it’s much of a issue when used in conjunction with each other.
I’m not in the military, though. Different “culture” and a whole other beast altogether, so I don’t think I’m qualified to give a very informed opinion on this, fwiw.
I believe the point of the military is the dehumanization of both men and women, that’s exactly why they are doing it, they want cogs to insert into the machine, not people.
It’s obviously wrong, but it’s not a sexism thing either, at least there.
