(Bloomberg) -- From Tesla chargers in the ancient alleys that surround the Forbidden City in Beijing to lonely highway rest stops with charging posts in the western deserts, signs of the electrification of China’s transport fleet — and the demise of gasoline — are everywhere.Most Read from BloombergIn Traffic-Weary Toronto, a Battle Breaks Out Over Bike LanesIn Italy’s Motor City, Car-Free Options Are GrowingNew York City’s ‘Living Breakwaters’ Brace for Stormier SeasNow, according to official s
Can we also curb those big fat ugly SUVs in the rest of the world? They are not only more polluting but infinitely more dangerous.
EVs are such a mess in North America. Unless I want a Tesla it feels like I can only get gigantic SUVs or expensive luxury cars.
I just want to replace my Mazda 3 with an electric equivalent
I don’t know why everyone forgets one of the first EVS. Look at getting a Nissan leaf, they are awesome.
I’ve got a few years left on the Mazda. If the leaf can get access to Tesla chargers I might be game.
Fair enough. I’m not sure if it’s just me but I never use public chargers anyways, it’s all home charging.
Ooof. So we only have street parking here, but we have a public charger just steps from the house (not Tesla)
Didn’t the first Gen leafs have absolutely terrible battery quality such that they were junked in just a couple years?
First gen leafs are almost 15 years old at this point, they, until the design change, didn’t include dedicated battery heating and cooling tech which is part of why their batteries didn’t last as long as later models.
Any one newer than 2015 shouldn’t have these issues, and many have been retrofitted with newer batteries today. There are older gen Leafs still on the market however you just have to be mindful of the battery health, especially given they had much smaller batteries back then. If the health is low on one of those old batteries though you’ll be lucky to get 100km range, so the older first gens have limited use cases today.
Yup but that’s to be expected being literally one of the first to market. Most issues are now worked out.
It’s intentional sabotage by the oil lobby.
And there’s quite a lot more brands with EVs in that size bracket coming out in the near future
Sadly none of those are available in the US except the EX30, and the starting MSRP is literally double that of something like the Mazda3 the OP mentioned.
I wasn’t aware that both the VW and Renault wasn’t available in the US… That sucks. But yeah, the MSRP for EVs are generally quite a bit higher, but that goes for pretty much every size of car, but that is only a tiny bit of the whole picture. I also didn’t know the price disparity was that big in the US for the Mazda and Volvo… But when you are looking at EVs you really need to look at the service and fuel/electricity costs too.
I live in Denmark, so obviously my experience will be very different. I recently switched from a Ford Fiesta 2016 (5-door hatchback, gasoline, medium-high trim) to a Hyundai Ioniq 5 (fully electric, crossover SUV, top trim), and I drive about 30,000 km per year (~ 18600 miles). And when you factor in the cost of the car loan, the service subscription, the insurance, and fuel costs, then the much larger, and much more luxurious Hyundai Ioniq 5 comes out to costing me about the same per month.
I did all the math before we bought the Ioniq 5, but unfortunately don’t have all the numbers handy anymore. But the main factors are the MSRP cost and the fuel costs
Ford Fiesta 1.0 100 hp Titanium Fun (2016):
Hyundai Ioniq 5 Long Range Ultimate (2023):
So even though the cost was 2.5 times higher, it was about the same to own and drive. I have no idea how that math works out with gas and electricity prices in the US.
Gasoline prices in the US are very low. Your cost is likely double or triple the price per liter.
What about battery degradation? How much does that cost? Who will pay for it? Also, if you plan to sell the car in the future, you should factor in its value deprecation (general, besides the battery), which for a car of 2.5 times the price will roughly 2.5 times more in absolute numbers. Or is this that type of leasing where you basically rent the car and don’t care about this?
As a small follow up, new research seems to suggest that current EV batteries might last 40% longer than any predictions have expected, due to the real-world use of them causing very different wear on them than the heavy duty testing in labiratories:
https://lemm.ee/post/49902192
Seen that, very good news indeed.
Edit: my last remaining worry is in regards of the effects of the cold weather (common in my country) on the batteries. Other than that, I’m sold :)
Battery degradation is certainly a very valid question to ask. This isn’t leasing or renting, I got a loan at the bank, and purchased the car. So yeah, battery degradation is an issue, however to me battery degradation basically means that I would just have to charge more often.
All current figures I can find mention degradation between 0.5% and 3% per year. Taking the worst case of 3% and compounding it over 10 years, means my 77,4 kWh battery turns into a 57 kWh battery, that is a total of 73% of the original capacity, at 20 years this reduces to 54% of original capacity. At present I only use around 20-40% of my battery on an average day, which would mean that I would still be able to fulfill my daily driving needs. In the best case of 0.5% degradation, the total capacity would only have decreased to 73,6 kWh, 95% of the original capacity, or 90% after 20 years. The warranty on the battery ensures that the battery can’t lose more than 30% of its original capacity in the first 10 years, so it seems reasonable to think that Hyundai isn’t expecting the degradation to exceed 3%, and they likely have built in a good bit of margin into that warranty, as they obviously don’t want you to replace your battery free of charge.
It’s very important to understand what causes most of the battery degradation, though.
The main killer of batteries is heat. If the thermals of your battery isn’t managed well by the car your battery will degrade much much faster. This is why laptops and cellphone batteries don’t last very long. Most modern EVs has liquid cooling loops that keep the battery at the correct temperatures, both when driving and when charging. Many of the early EVs didn’t have this, and suffered for it. So many of the statistics about battery degradation are from the earlier EVs which didn’t manage temperatures well.
Charging to 100% wears the battery much more than charging to 80%, which in turn also wears more than charging to 70%. Depleting the battery and then charging to 80% again and again wears your battery more than staying between 40%-70%. Even better if you can keep your battery at a lower state of charge constantly, but that obviously means you have less range at your disposal. Charging faster also causes more wear. So with the right behaviour you can reduce your battery wear quite significantly. I have set my car up to only charge to 70% for normal days, and only increase the limit when I know I’m going on a long trip. I also almost exclusively charge at home, which means a nice and slow charge rate during the night when the outdoor temperatures are low. I only use more than 40% of the capacity between charges on very rare occasions.
My Ford Fiesta was 8 years when I sold it, and at 10 years it’s timing belt should be changed. Something that would cost about 1/3 of the market value of the car… And if the belt decides to give up before then, then I would have been looking at rebuilding the whole engine, which could easily be as expensive as the whole market value of the car. Besides that, there’s all the other bits in a combustion vehicle that needs maintenance, such as spark plugs, oil changes, transmissions, clutches, cylinder head gaskets, exhausts wearing trough. Even brake pads last longer as most of the braking is done by regenerative braking. EVs does however need the battery coolant changed, and does wear the tires quicker.
In the end battery degradation is a gamble that I have chosen to take. I personally think the benefits outweigh the risks, and even at 54% capacity after 20 years, the car would still be useful to me. I do however understand that this doesn’t work for everyone, and many others won’t be willing to take the same risk.
Renault is a good brand, but unfortunately for me and my fellows they’re not in the US market. There was talk of them coming back into the market (or was it Peugeot, maybe both?) a few years back but apparently that fell through. I know both Renault and Peugeot have a presence in Mexico but (even before Trump’s threatened tariffs go through) importing cars (especially new cars) from outside the US as anyone other than a licensed dealer can be really cost prohibitive.
Damn, I didn’t know that Renault wasn’t in the US market…
They were for a while in the 1970’s through the 90’s (I think), but it was in partnership with the American Motors Company. When AMC went bust, Chrysler bought them out and ended the contract.
I wish the Electric mini had more than 114 mile range, if it had 250 mile range starting at 30k like it is I would find it perfect for most of my needs. (Unfortunately repair costs on minis are usually through the roof.)
Polestar
I was so excited when I heard Mazda was making an electric vehicle. But what they made was a joke, not even 100 miles on a charge. I also want to replace my 3 with an electric of the same size.
I understand what they were going for. Batteries are heavy, so keep the car light and nimble and completely impractical as anything but a local commuter.
Chevy Bolt and Nissan Leaf come to mind.
The mach-e is a great option. The pricing has come down enough to make it a comparable against the model Y. It’s not as small as a model 3, but it definitely doesn’t feel as big as it is.
No they need to also be pushed off a cliff.
No, they will be even cheaper and easier to run.