Has this person even considered the incredibly dangerous precedent being set where BOTH sides of the two party system have constituents that actively encourage them to abandon the rule of law?
What could go wrong?
Those damned leopards were so cute that I walked up to them and pet themā¦but they ate my face!
Donāt come crying to me when the leopards actually eat your face.
This one video (and the pervasive tendency of Centrists to engage in echo chamber building using āofficial block listsā on world and BlueSky) has inspired me to start this community.
*Maybe heās joking and I am not in on the joke? *
Excellent job taking a valid argument on why the political system in the United States is a corrupt institution that canāt be fixed merely by voting for one of the two lobbyist-sponsored self-interest partiesā¦ and subsequently making your opinion seem worthless by drawing ideological lines.
Liberals are also disillusioned with the state of affairs, as evidenced by their abysmal turnout. Instead of contributing to the partisan division, you could have made an argument that all Americans are being screwed by unopposed oligarchs paying both sides to enact policies that benefit nobody but themselves.
Edit again: Phrasing things the first time has never been my strong point, but surely I canāt be the only one who considers antagonizing people who might otherwise agree with you to be a terrible idea.
Oh look an identity politics brainwashed smug lib right on cue!Iām guessing you think Iām a Republican or a Trumper or something. I assure you. Iām not.
Itās just your brainwashing that causes you to see things in such partisan terms.Iām actually a leftist
(evidently far more leftist than you)that is sick of other people(EXACTLY like you)cosplaying as a leftist then actively encouraging their politicians to be above the law because they have been so ideologically brainwashed that they canāt see the issues in giving ANYONE extrajudicial power.edit: blatant mischaracterization and demonstration of hypocrisy on my part
Your award is in the mail buddy.
It was a witch-hunt.
They went after Biden again and again with every false claim they could find until they nailed him with something they donāt even want enforced at all and no one else gets arrested for.
I agree with the pardon because even if it wasnāt Bidens son, and was instead Bob from down the road, Iād still think he was being unfairly targeted and I donāt believe in that kind of behavior.
You canāt just follow someone every day until you find something to nail them on. Thatās not how the system is supposed to work. There are really criminals out there. Itās important to send a message to the law that you canāt just target someone you donāt like .
I disagree strongly but thank you for your well-reasoned response.
This sets a dangerous precedent. Biden is (and always has been) a criminal.
Case in point (and very closely related to this pardon): He fleeced ENTIRE GENERATIONS OF STUDENTS IN DIRECT EXCHANGE FOR A PAYOUT FROM MBNA TO HIS SON THE FOLLOWING YEAR.
Thank you for your compliment. I also appreciate your rebuttable because if I only ever talk with people who completely agree with me ā¦ Well Iād see a very foolish and arrogant man in every mirror.
Itās been a long work day for me but Iāll read the article you sent when I have a spare moment . It would be a waste to read it right now with my tired mind full of thoughts about work problems.
I should warn you though when I do read it and if I feel it isnāt accurate or fair I will be coming back to explain that to you. Hopefully you enjoy that as much as I do.
Honestly I feel the biggest problem, the thing causing such division and anger, is how many people have adopted the foolish āmy side is entirely right and yours entirely wrong. I will not listen I will only shout!ā Mentality. Iāve always been very proud of myself for not subscribing to that mentality. My opinions obviously feel right to me but more importantly I donāt close the door and lock it.
Forgive me for bringing up religion but I feel itās a good comparison. If I truly believe in Jesus then I shouldnāt be afraid to speak to someone who does not. To be afraid of challenges to my beliefs means I either a) donāt really have faith in my beliefs or b) donāt have faith in myself.
If the only way I can hold a belief or opinion is by hiding myself behind a wall with my fingers in my earsā¦ Its more of a toddlerās safety blanket than a true thought or idea.
Sorry forgive my rambling. Long day lol.
You and pivot_root collectively made my day so much more wholesome. Interactions like these are why I love Lemmyās smallness. Kick back after your long day and relax and thanks for the reply. :)
This is how the system works though. Cops can follow you while driving and wait for you to make a mistake to pull you over. They can plant evidence to take you in, lie to you to get you to confess (despite your innocence), and then still put you away/worse despite evidence exonerating you, or you withdrawing your confession. And this is under a system that Biden spent his political career helping build.
Not saying thatās how it should work, but thatās definitely how it works for us little people. And if itās how it works for us, itās how itās supposed to work for everyone, not everyone except the family members of politicians.
Al Capone was taken down on tax evasion, not murder and booze/drug running. Hunter still broke the law, and precedent means nothing in todayās America. This gives the āboth sidesā people another fact to throw out there (regardless of justification, Biden still pardoned his son) as justification for not voting since clearly the presidentās children are now above the law (since Trump and Biden have now done it).
Biden just told the country that he doesnāt believe in the system he helped create to guard against abuse, so heās going to protect his son and wish the rest of us luck because, wellā¦
I understand your point by in have some disagreements that youāve actually touched on in youāre comment. I think you also know the issues Iām going to point out.
Yes, I understand youāre point howeverā¦ Remember the gangster Al Capone? He sold whiskey during prohibition, bribes cops, ran a lucrative empireā¦ He COULD do that. He DID do that. Was it legal? To bring up my imaginary neighbor Bob again. If we were in the 1920s and Bob got killed by a booze runner and I told you āthatās not okay with meā would youāre response be āthis is how the system worksā?
No. What I said about Bidens son is valid. Yes the system often works that way for alot of people. Iām not okay with that. Thatās exactly my point. Thatās why I donāt mind the pardon for Biden. I understand alot of people donāt get pardoned for this obvious miscarriage of justice, I also understand heās getting better treatment because of his fatherā¦ But to offer another comparison: āBidens son get enough to eat because heās rich! Some people starve!ā Iād reply to that "yes itās unfair alot of people starve because they are poor. That doesnāt mean I want Bidens son to starve because of some kind of misguided attempt to make things fair. I donāt want anyone to starve. I donāt want anyone targeted illegally by police. It sucks only rich people get out of that situation. That doesnāt mean I want more rich peoples kids harassed by police any more than I want more rich peoples kids to starve. Thatās not the avenue I think will solve the problem.
One more comparison to illustrate my point.
Imagine we lived in a world where everyone who made less than 100k a year got kicked in the balls every morning before work. That would be incredibly unfair and cruel. I wouldnt march the streets with a sign saying ākick the rich people in the balls everyday too!!!ā Thatās not the solution I want. I guess it would technically be more fair, but my goal isnāt really fairness, I donāt want to get kicked in the balls everyday because that sucks. I want that to stop not expand to more demographics. That doesnāt help me at all. It just hurts more people. Thatās not the solution I want.
Edit: sorry I said that was my comparison but Iāve got one more.
Rosa Parks didnt refuse to leave her seat on that bus because she wanted white people to also be forced to sit at the back of the bus. She wanted black people to be able to sit in the front. Thatās what Iām talking about.
Obviously I want more rich people to go to jail for the crimes they committed and I want the system to be more fair. However my problem isnāt that cops arent being SHITTY ENOUGH to rich people. My problem is they are not doing what we pay them to do and they have no real oversight or repercussions when they are shitty. I know itās common for cops to be shitty to disenfranchised people.
Iāve seen my privilege as a tall white redneck male. Iāve actually tested and pushed the boundaries of that privilege just to see how far I could actually take it. Iād love to tell you some stories sometime that would blow your mind. Things that wouldāve got a black man killed but I didnāt even get a ticket. I know the problems, Iām vocal about them. The solution isnāt pushing cops to be equally crappy to more people. The solution is to make them less crappy.
Ok, so, weāre on the same side, idk where youāre coming from so hot and heavy.
Iām also not sure why you responded to my comment twice, but Iām not going to respond to them.
I feel like youāre putting words in my mouthā¦
I never mentioned the IRS, I mentioned Al Capone and tax evasion, not as a āhe could bribe his way out,ā but more as, āhe broke tax evasion law, and thatās what he was put away for. Just like how Hunter Biden broke the law, regardless of precedent, he should face the consequences.ā
Thatās it, thatās the only reason I brought it up, Iām fully aware Trump and ilk are going to gut everything they can. Iām on VA disability, Iām fully aware Iām likely to lose half my income under his administration, and I fully understand what lays ahead of us for the next four years.
See, this is just condescending, and unwarranted. I engaged your ideas, I didnāt condescend to you.
You donāt, and you responded to this sentence twice across two comments, not sure why. I explained above.
The fuck are you talking about, who tf is Bob? If you told me āthatās not okay with me,ā Iād tell you I agree. Why tf would I say āthis is how the system works?ā
If whoever killed Bob got off because he was pardoned by his father, the POTUS, yeah, Iād tell you sorry, thatās how the system works. Itās a different system for the rich: I want the system as it is applied to them, and then maybe theyāll change it. I donāt want them getting to walk away because the system is unfair, so they shouldnāt have to face it while we still will. Thatās asinine.
I want Hunter to face the consequences of the system his father spent his entire political career building. Your examples are irrelevant, there are people suffering under the laws and system Biden built, idgaf that āthe Republicans play dirty, wahhhh, we need to stoop to their level.ā
Yeah, we fucking do, no shit Sherlock, but that needs to be done through legislation and loopholes, not protecting your criminal son after fucking over your entire country with your hubris. And spending your lame duck session doing fuck all for anyone but your family makes you a piece of shit who doesnāt deserve defense.
You act like youāve come across this grand, āno one else can possibly understand my thought process, maaaaaaanā mountain man guru enlightenment. āI want the system to be more fair for all, and that system to be applied equally to all.ā
Thatās your argument, right? That you took multiple examples to try to illustrate? Thatās how Iām understanding it, Iām almost sure thatās what the 12 examples you gave are saying.
Yeah, I agree, but thatās not the current system. The current system is the one I described above, yeah, I agree, I wish it was better. Biden could have done something about that over the course of his 40+ year political career. And he did: he actively made it worse, and then gives the country the finger to pardon his criminal son.
Fuck him, and fuck his pardon, I legitimately hope Trump still makes their lives a living hell. Yāknow why? Because thatās whatās in store for me the next four years, and millions of people both like and unlike me. And youāre gonna say, āNo no no no Blitzoā and write twelve more paragraphs with forty more examples you donāt think I could possibly have considered before writing this, I couldnāt possibly have comprehended this example, to illustrate that no, thatās just āI get kicked in the balls so he should too.ā
No, itās not, because Biden built the house that weāre all going to suffer in. His hubris and arrogance as āAmericaās Saviorā fucked us, he didnāt pass any meaningful police reform like you keep screaming that we need, he didnāt do shit to make the system better, and at the 11th hour he abuses his power to protect his family.
No, fuck him. If he was worried about how the judicial system in the current form he helped create, not some idyllic one you keep saying we need to apply to them, then maybe he should have considered his actions and how they might affect his loved ones.
Yāknow, the same bullshit judges say to people when theyāre in court, after theyāve been entered into the system that, once again, Biden helped build. The system the rest of us suffer under because him and his party wonāt do shit about anything other than line their pockets.
You wanna talk about pushing boundaries of your privilege? I went from a cis white male Navy sailor to a trans woman veteran, Iām fully aware of what minorities do and do not have the luxury of.
Youāre acting like I think only Hunter should face the law, no, I think all of them should have: Trump, his kids, every insurrectionist, every fucking one of them. But guess what? Under the system Biden literally hand picked, he dragged his fucking feet and none of them will face consequences.
And not only will they not face consequences, theyāre coming back into power, with a plan, because of fucking Biden and the DNC. So yeah, the system is fucked, but they should have to live under it just like we do, regardless of party or affiliation or wealth. Biden had 4 years to do that to Trump, blew it, and then did nothing to help us with his Presidential immunity but made sure his son was taken care of.
Comparing him to Rosa Parks for that is fucking disgusting, and she definitely wouldnāt want to be associated with open corruption like that.
It was just a long day. I wasnāt mad just rambling
Letās get this out of the way before I explain my thoughts about your arguments. Sorry about the length
Im not a fan of Biden. Iāve actually hated every presidential candidate and despise the ālesser of two evilsā system weāve built for ourselves. I generally donāt vote at all. Iāve voted only twice specifically because during only those two elections I felt ālesser of two evilsā was important enough to matter.
I could praise Bidens accomplishments but I could also list trumps Accomplishments. Iām not at all brainwashed by the media and dont live in a bubble of people who always agree with me. My political opinion is I hate both of them. I hate most politicians. Iāve never seen a single politician in my entire 40 years who I felt was worth voting for, and Iāve seen one who was worth voting against.
I think itās important to add to that I was a trump Supefan before he ran for president. I have an unopened case of trump vodka from when it first came out. Loved trump. Respected him because Iām also a salesman by trade. When he ran for president I saw right thru his salesman bullshit.
My point is donāt bother trash talking Biden. Iām fully aware Biden sucks and all politicians suck. Iām also aware Trump is different, he isnāt a politician!!! Unfortunately I also know Trump better than the fools that follow him. Heās a salesman, a damn good one. Heās sold half of America a shitty used car with a crap engine and a fresh coat of paint.
Thatās why I voted against him even tho I never bothered to vote before. I can see the exact salesman strategies heās using. He has no idea how to run a country, heās just making profit. Heās a salesman.
Thatās where I stand on that so donāt bother trashing Biden. I know Biden sucks.
Anyway on to your arguments.
We already discussed that. Al Capone CAN bribe. That IS how the SYSTEM worked. It doesnāt change the legality. Cops are not supposed to do that. We just donāt stop them. The solution is to stop them not expand their reach to upper classes in a misguided attempt at fairness. I donāt want to be kicked in the balls. Getting more people kicked in the balls doesnāt solve my problem.
Yep. And Trump and other billionaires want to continue to gut the IRS. The IRS has actually admitted they no longer have the funding to investigate rich people and their tax evasion because the canāt afford the long court battles with expensive lawyers. They admitted they donāt even try because the funding is gone.
You poor poor soul ā¦ The āboth sidesā people donāt give a shit. When Obama wanted to approve a supreme Court justice the Republicans demanded he wait a year until the new election. They said it wasnāt fair for him to approve one in his last year. Obama waited, he won, they still wouldnāt approve it. When trump got elected he filled the seat and bragged that Obama was lazy for not filling it. Fast forward to the last few months of Trumpās presidency. A new position in the supreme Court opened. Trump filled it. Democrats pointed out " you said last time it wasnāt fair to do that"ā¦ The Republicans laughed and did it anyway.
Thatās the issue with the whole " we got to play fair or it gives them an excuse!!!" Argument. They donāt need and an excuse. They arenāt going to play fair regardless. By demanding democrats follow some unwritten rules out of tradition, out of principle, to maintain some illusion of high groundā¦ Itās just giving the cheaters more of an advantage. The Republicans do not give a crap about tradition or rules. They are cheating every step of the way and breaking every law they can. Because they can.
So maybe fight that instead of wagging your finger and saying essentially āstooping to their levelā nonsense. This is what the game is now. Play it this way or give up. Thatās life. If your only problem is one side is sinking to the level of the other, but you arenāt doing or saying anything about the otherā¦ You arent being fair or honest to the situation. If youāre idea is letting the other side cheat and the opposition follow every rule and tradition you arenāt really interested in fairness. Only handicapping one side in favor of the other
Look at the kettle calling the pot black. Itās funny that you think Iām both a liberal and condoning Bidenās actions. The institution needs to be thrown out from underneath the structures keeping it in place, and youāre not going to convince people to join the cause when youāre actively antagonizing them.
Your comment makes no sense.
You came at me because I used the term lib. You know Iām the moderator here, right? šIām not going to ban you. I may even sticky you as the quintessential example of what Iām saying here.edit: blatant mischaracterization and demonstration of hypocrisy on my part
As I addressed in the edit of my original comment: antagonizing people who would otherwise be on your side is a terrible way to gain support. It not only encourages the status quo that has kept people treating politics as team sports, but it also makes the rest of us look bad.
Wouldnāt be the first time Iāve argued with a moderator over politics.
Do you not see yourself, coming here to antagonize people who would otherwise be on your side? Do you have any self-awareness whatsoever?Youāre actively fighting with me because I am (rightly) criticizing
youra demagogue for resorting to EXTRAJUDICAL means. If I said anything about Trump doing the same exact thing,youādlibs would be like, āHell yeah!āPlease take a moment to reflect on your own extreme hypocrisy.Iām done with respectability politics. I made this community to escape the rampant censorship on Lemmy.world of opinions critical of the DNC under the guise of being a safe space. I made it to be free to point out the blind (smug even) partisan hypocrisy
that youāre so adamant about demonstrating for me in this thread.edit: blatant mischaracterization and demonstration of hypocrisy on my part
In hindsight, I agree that was probably not the best approach on my part. I have a bad habit of writing comments in the moment, then editing them after-the-fact to further clarify.
I doubt Iām going to convince you, but the people saying āgood job bidenā or pretending that this gross misuse of power is actually some clever āpoison pillā are not my demagogue. Iām just sick of people creating further divides inside of the already-fractured left.
For what itās worth mentioning, Iāve managed to get away with criticizing the DNC in various places outside the politics communities. Those ones are a lost cause, though.
Either way, I doubt thereās much of a point to continue trying to share my thoughts on the matter. Ban me, donāt ban me. Unless specifically @mentioned, Iāll refrain from participating in future posts or comments.
I thought long and hard about this exchange just now over a shower and I thought perhaps Iām misattributing you as a liberal partisan hack. Perhaps I read your quote and painted you with the same brush I accuse others of using because something you said aligned to that definition in my head.
Youāre right. I HAVE spent too long in echo chambers. Their rampant censorship of basic truths sets off my anger at injustice.
Perhaps youāre just trying to say ābe nice to peopleā.
but what Iām saying is anyone is free to point out any self owns they want on this on this community. Trump supporters are a cornucopia themselves of self-owns. So, I want to set out right now that youāre welcome to post any instance of a self own. Perhaps even my own in this thread in characterizing you incorrectly is in and of itself a self own. š
I will not ban it or censor it or do anything to stifle anyoneās free speech. I apologize if I mischaracterized you.
Hey, honestlyāI deserve a lot of fault. Like you mentioned in the last comment, I was hypocritically aggressive and antagonistic over what I felt was unnecessary antagonism towards people. Thatāsā¦ ironically stupid, to say the least.
It really would have been best if I took the time to think about my tone before posting instead of trying to fix it with edits after the fact. That wouldāve probably saved a lot of frustration for both of us, and thatās something Iām going to be working towards being better about.
Yep, but also with a bit of an ulterior motive on top of that.
This might be incredibly naive of me, but I donāt think most liberals are a completely lost cause yet, and I donāt want to preemptively alienate them in the same way that they and conservatives have done to each other. I feel like thereās still some common ground on topics like corporate lobbying, 2-party FPTP elections, filibustering, etc. In an us-vs-them environment, I suspect they would be more willing to act against common interests out of spite. Or as the saying goes, āyou catch more flies with honey than vinegarā.
Although, Iām also probably a hypocrite in saying that since I no longer extend the same courtesy to MAGAs these daysā¦
As long as I can find some quality content worth posting without giving myself an aneurysm by reading it, I would be happy to contribute š