• irmoz@reddthat.com
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    1 year ago

    Of course not. But what are we organising for, if not our rights? In our society, those rights are upheld by law. We organise to make those laws happen. And , when it comes to it, to behead them and make our own laws.

    • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      Laws are made by the powerful few.

      Power for the masses comes from the groundul up.

      We organize to build our own power, toward our own interests, to challenge the systems that support the interests of elites.

      • irmoz@reddthat.com
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        1 year ago

        Laws are made by the powerful few.

        Yep, in our current neoliberal capitalist system. This is what we live in, which is why it’s what I’m describing.

        Power for the masses comes from the groundul up.

        I know, but we don’t have that yet. That’s the goal.

        We organize to build our own power, toward our own interests, to challenge the systems that support the interests of elites.

        Indeed. No need to repeat my own beliefs at me ;)

        • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          It has always been the same under representative democracy. Elite bodies serve elite interests.

          The postwar period took its form due to strong labor, and the Bretton Woods system, arising in the aftermath of the Depression and amidst the Second World War. The period was the exception, not the rule, for capitalism under liberal democracy.

          Laws are at best one tool of many, not the final objective, for labor.

          • irmoz@reddthat.com
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            1 year ago

            The period was the exception, not the rule, for capitalism under liberal democracy.

            Laws are at best one tool of many, not the final objective, for labor.

            I’m literally an anarcho-communist, you don’t need to tell me this. I have already said this. I’m only defending regulation because they’re our best tool for immediate results under liberal democracy, and I have already said before that it can only be achieved through violent demonstration, and I’ve also said that to achieve our real goals we need to get even more violent and get the guillotines out for full on revolution.

            Stop preaching my own opinions at me like you’re trying to convert me lol. We’re on the same side.

            • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              I may have misunderstood your view. Mine is that legislation is mostly symbolic. The real work is on the ground.

              I’m sorry if it seemed I was picking fights.

              • irmoz@reddthat.com
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                1 year ago

                I am in complete agreement with you. I only differ in that legislation can be used in our present liberal democracy to help us, but I definitely don’t think they’ll be convinced easily.

                Sorry that I wasn’t clearer earlier. Tbh I don’t say commie shit upfront most of the time because I never know if I’m dealing with a lib.

                • unfreeradical@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  I think the point of disagreement is the actual meaning of legislation.

                  Laws create no magic force on anyone. They are rather merely occurrences within the same overall system in which we all interact. The resistance by the powerful for some law to be created derives from the same source that informs their behavior once its creation is completed.

                  Power from the masses is required to make a law meaningful, which to my mind, is good enough reason to consider laws almost meaningless.

                  • irmoz@reddthat.com
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                    1 year ago

                    So, are you arguing that workers shouldn’t push for regulation and legislation that secures their rights? Like, I never suggested they were magic. Or that they were perfect and made everyone behave perfectly. Don’t put words in my mouth. But they can secure a level of safety for workers that is necessary for us to survive if we’re gonna continue to live in a capitalist hellhole. Legislation is how we got 40 hour work weeks and safety measures.