As a Leftwinger (real one, not the American notion of left-of-Trump being Leftwing) this is something I’ve though about a lot.
For example, most people are driven to some level or other by Greed: for example, if you think about it, when people from the “Working class” demand things for the “Working class”, are they driven by a pure desire for equality or is it really about benefiting themselves as members of the “Working class”? Ditto for “Positive Discrimination” being demanded by people who will benefit from it - is it really about equality or is it Personal Upside Maximization hidding behind the “group”?
Choices driven by Greed above all often collide with the whole “Greatest good for the greatest number” principle of the Leftwing.
Anyways, “screw you, my moral standpoint is different so I don’t care about what you say” as an absolute rule is how the Left fragments, so indeed an absolutist take of “If your Moral standpoint is not exactly the same as mine I won’t listen to you” is self-defeating in the strategical sense.
Then again, going totally in the opposite direction - i.e. no people should be shunned due to their Moral standpoint - also ends up with some weird results: if somebody has a moral standpoint that “Slavery is just the Weak being put in their proper place by the Strong, and as Strong people they’re superior hence have a right to chose what others do” (I almost puked a little in my mouth writting this), should we really try to do anything else than shun people whose moral standpoint is that?
Personally my compromise is that some Moral standpoints are unnacceptable and those who hold them do not deserve any attempt at finding a middle point between me and them - in other words, even in Morality there are red lines - and whilst we should indeed listen to those who are on the right side of those red lines even if we don’t quite have the same Moral standpoint, those on the wrong side of those red lines are beyond salvation and not worth the effort.
if you think about it, when people from the “Working class” demand things for the “Working class”, are they driven by a pure desire for equality or is it really about benefiting themselves as members of the “Working class”?
There’s a difference to “greed” and “self-interest”. It benefits me as a member of the working class if my class gets power. Personally, I have a moral reason behind class solidarity. But it’s not the only reason.
Then again, going totally in the opposite direction - i.e. no people should be shunned due to their Moral standpoint - also ends up with some weird results
Yeah, I didn’t say that you should never disagree with someone based on moral grounds. But if you’re debating with someone, then moral arguments can be very ineffective or you basically already agree with each other. The OP in the tweet chose to gloat about their moral superiority, which helps basically no one.
and whilst we should indeed listen to those who are on the right side of those red lines even if we don’t quite have the same Moral standpoint, those on the wrong side of those red lines are beyond salvation and not worth the effort
I think that the amount of people who are that far gone is way exaggerated. I’m sure that a lot of Trump voters are in the “leopards ate my face” cathegory and can therefore be convinced. But you don’t convince people by shaming them. The others (Nick Fuentes and the likes) don’t care about your moral judgement.
As a Leftwinger (real one, not the American notion of left-of-Trump being Leftwing) this is something I’ve though about a lot.
For example, most people are driven to some level or other by Greed: for example, if you think about it, when people from the “Working class” demand things for the “Working class”, are they driven by a pure desire for equality or is it really about benefiting themselves as members of the “Working class”? Ditto for “Positive Discrimination” being demanded by people who will benefit from it - is it really about equality or is it Personal Upside Maximization hidding behind the “group”?
Choices driven by Greed above all often collide with the whole “Greatest good for the greatest number” principle of the Leftwing.
Anyways, “screw you, my moral standpoint is different so I don’t care about what you say” as an absolute rule is how the Left fragments, so indeed an absolutist take of “If your Moral standpoint is not exactly the same as mine I won’t listen to you” is self-defeating in the strategical sense.
Then again, going totally in the opposite direction - i.e. no people should be shunned due to their Moral standpoint - also ends up with some weird results: if somebody has a moral standpoint that “Slavery is just the Weak being put in their proper place by the Strong, and as Strong people they’re superior hence have a right to chose what others do” (I almost puked a little in my mouth writting this), should we really try to do anything else than shun people whose moral standpoint is that?
Personally my compromise is that some Moral standpoints are unnacceptable and those who hold them do not deserve any attempt at finding a middle point between me and them - in other words, even in Morality there are red lines - and whilst we should indeed listen to those who are on the right side of those red lines even if we don’t quite have the same Moral standpoint, those on the wrong side of those red lines are beyond salvation and not worth the effort.
There’s a difference to “greed” and “self-interest”. It benefits me as a member of the working class if my class gets power. Personally, I have a moral reason behind class solidarity. But it’s not the only reason.
Yeah, I didn’t say that you should never disagree with someone based on moral grounds. But if you’re debating with someone, then moral arguments can be very ineffective or you basically already agree with each other. The OP in the tweet chose to gloat about their moral superiority, which helps basically no one.
I think that the amount of people who are that far gone is way exaggerated. I’m sure that a lot of Trump voters are in the “leopards ate my face” cathegory and can therefore be convinced. But you don’t convince people by shaming them. The others (Nick Fuentes and the likes) don’t care about your moral judgement.