Signalâs president reveals the cost of running the privacy-preserving platformânot just to drum up donations, but to call out the for-profit surveillance business models it competes against.
The encrypted messaging and calling app Signal has become a one-of-a-kind phenomenon in the tech world: It has grown from the preferred encrypted messenger for the paranoid privacy elite into a legitimately mainstream service with hundreds of millions of installs worldwide. And it has done this entirely as a nonprofit effort, with no venture capital or monetization model, all while holding its own against the best-funded Silicon Valley competitors in the world, like WhatsApp, Facebook Messenger, Gmail, and iMessage.
Today, Signal is revealing something about what it takes to pull that offâand itâs not cheap. For the first time, the Signal Foundation that runs the app has published a full breakdown of Signalâs operating costs: around $40 million this year, projected to hit $50 million by 2025.
Signalâs president, Meredith Whittaker, says her decision to publish the detailed cost numbers in a blog post for the first timeâgoing well beyond the IRS disclosures legally required of nonprofitsâwas more than just as a frank appeal for year-end donations. By revealing the price of operating a modern communications service, she says, she wanted to call attention to how competitors pay these same expenses: either by profiting directly from monetizing usersâ data or, she argues, by locking users into networks that very often operate with that same corporate surveillance business model.
âBy being honest about these costs ourselves, we believe that helps provide a view of the engine of the tech industry, the surveillance business model, that is not always apparent to people,â Whittaker tells WIRED. Running a service like Signalâor WhatsApp or Gmail or Telegramâis, she says, âsurprisingly expensive. You may not know that, and thereâs a good reason you donât know that, and itâs because itâs not something that companies who pay those expenses via surveillance want you to know.â
Signal pays $14 million a year in infrastructure costs, for instance, including the price of servers, bandwidth, and storage. It uses about 20 petabytes per year of bandwidth, or 20 million gigabytes, to enable voice and video calling alone, which comes to $1.7 million a year. The biggest chunk of those infrastructure costs, fully $6 million annually, goes to telecom firms to pay for the SMS text messages Signal uses to send registration codes to verify new Signal accountsâ phone numbers. That cost has gone up, Signal says, as telecom firms charge more for those text messages in an effort to offset the shrinking use of SMS in favor of cheaper services like Signal and WhatsApp worldwide.
Another $19 million a year or so out of Signalâs budget pays for its staff. Signal now employs about 50 people, a far larger team than a few years ago. In 2016, Signal had just three full-time employees working in a single room in a coworking space in San Francisco. âPeople didnât take vacations,â Whittaker says. âPeople didnât get on planes because they didnât want to be offline if there was an outage or something.â While that skeleton-crew era is overâWhittaker says it wasnât sustainable for those few overworked staffersâshe argues that a team of 50 people is still a tiny number compared to services with similar-sized user bases, which often have thousands of employees.
read more: https://www.wired.com/story/signal-operating-costs/
archive link: https://archive.ph/O5rzD
Maybe I phrased incorrectly. It prevents attacker from getting password and using it again in future.
Salted hash if not implemented with possible MITM attacks in mind indeed can be used by attacker. Resisting them is easy and can be done by channel binding techniques like using channel public key as part of salt. In such case if attacker successfully will make MITM attack, server will just reject hash, because it is not equal with expected one.
Passwords are secrets. Secrets arenât passwords.
HOTP exists. HOTP is used.
In what circumstances besides reusing passwords does this matter?
To make this discussion extra long: If youâre creating a hash based on a local password, then share this as secret to the server, which then treats it with regular password security, this is beneficial for security as far as I can see, as it makes sure that the âpasswordâ/secret is strong and pseudo random.
Happens more then you imagine.
Didnât I mention two parts where hashing can be used? Letâs take lemmy as an example. There is /login endpoint that takes username and password and returns token and there is /register endpoint that takes lots of arguments including username and password. Hashing you are talking about now is replacing plain-text password with generated secret. It prevents server from knowing password that is used for generation of other secrets on other platforms. Now there is also hypothetical /gettmptok and /verify endpoints. First takes username and returns temproary token and second takes username, temproary token and hash of password salted with (public) key of channel and temproary token and returns⊠letâs say boolean value, which means this hash becomes valid token. If attacker tries to MITM here, server will reject token because it will not match expected hash because salt is wrong. Even without channel binding attacker cannot get secret to login again in case user logsout of session or forcefuly closes it from another one or token is invalidated for any other reason.
Got it EXTRA long.
I fail to see how this prevents any MITM attack where the attacker pretenta to be the server, but besides that, that just seems overly complicated.
With channel binding: public keys server and client use are different, which makes salt different on client and server, which makes hash different on client and server, server donât get hash it expects, server replies with 403 GTFO. And as a bonus attacker didnât get your password.