• Zoolander@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    This is not about logic! Weā€™re discussing religion, for Peteā€™s sake.

    Itā€™s not my definition, itā€™s the definition of what it means to be a Christian from the source of the word. Itā€™s literally in the name - Christian. Spouting Bible verses doesnā€™t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesnā€™t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah). Just because youā€™re intellectually lazy and because your logic only extends so far as immediately obvious ā€œif a then bā€ situations doesnā€™t mean that thereā€™s anything wrong with my argument.

    The entire point of this thread is that ā€œChristiansā€ arenā€™t using their own logic and definitions. They can say that ā€œMike Johnsonā€ isnā€™t a Christian because theyā€™re perverting the definition of the word to include whatever specific flavor they like. Even if he did fit that specific flavor, they just move the goalposts and then he suddenly becomes ā€œnot a Christianā€ again.

    by your definition nobody

    Yet againā€¦ itā€™s not my definition. Christ was the one that defined what it means to be Christ-like. If someoneā€™s actions do not reflect the actions of Christ, then theyā€™re not ā€œChrist-likeā€. I donā€™t understand how much more this can be spelled out for you.

    • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Spouting Bible verses doesnā€™t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesnā€™t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah).

      Claiming to be a Christian is a large part of what it takes to be a Christian by common definition. You skipped over that part likely because itā€™s devastating to your bad argument. šŸ„±

      EDIT: I also think itā€™s funny that you think ā€œbelieving in Jesusā€ would be as simple as believing that there was a guy that walked the Earth named Jesus that said and did some holy stuff. Believing in Jesus for most people would mean believing in his divinity, not just that oh there was this swell guy that walked around at one point.

      • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Claiming to be a Christian means nothing. I didnā€™t skip anything. Itā€™s literally the same argument as the ā€œclaiming to be a golferā€ and ā€œclaiming to be a musicianā€ arguments that you canā€™t wrap your head around.

        Claiming to be a Christian is not a part of what it takes to be a Christian anymore than claiming to be Scotsman makes someone not born in Scotland one.

        Edit: Your edit is even stupider than the body of your post. Satan is not a Christian yet, by your definition, he would have to believe in Jesusā€™ divinity and would, therefore, be a Christian. This is how stupid your responses are.

        • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Satan is not a Christian yet, by your definition, he would have to believe in Jesusā€™ divinity and would, therefore, be a Christian. This is how stupid your responses are.

          I like how you keep telling me how stupid I am, but think the common sense definition for ā€œChristianā€ wouldnā€™t include having to be a person. šŸ˜Ž

          • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            I keep telling you how stupid you are because you keep avoiding the actual point and, instead, say stupid things like what you just said as if theyā€™re some sort of gotcha or disprove my point. I literally cannot spell out this argument to you any more simply so, rather than assume youā€™re intentionally being dishonest or are arguing in bad faith (which I expect is exactly what youā€™re doing), I have to go with the only logical alternative which is that you are stupid and the point of this is just whizzing above your head while you look at the sky wondering.

            • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              I keep telling you how stupid you are because you keep avoiding the actual point and, instead, say stupid things like what you just said as if theyā€™re some sort of gotcha or disprove my point.

              He posts, without a single bit of irony.

              The common sense definition of ā€œa Christianā€ would certainly contain ā€œa personā€ or ā€œpeopleā€ in it.

              • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                ā€¦and he doesnā€™t know what irony is.

                Thereā€™s no such thing as a ā€œcommon sense definitionā€, you absolutely vacuous moron.

                • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Hmm, I wonder what this is then:

                  Christians (/ĖˆkrÉŖstŹƒÉ™n, -tiən/ ā“˜) are people who follow or adhere to Christianity, a monotheistic Abrahamic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. They form the largest religious community in the world.[10] The words Christ and Christian derive from the Koine Greek title ChristĆ³s (Ī§ĻĪ¹ĻƒĻ„ĻŒĻ‚), a translation of the Biblical Hebrew term mashiach (מÖøשׁ֓יחַ) (usually rendered as messiah in English).[11] While there are diverse interpretations of Christianity which sometimes conflict,[12][13] they are united in believing that Jesus has a unique significance.[12]

                  Cuz that sure doesnā€™t seem like the same dumb fucking shit you were spouting, and sure sounds a whole lot more like what I would think of as a definition before looking the fucking thing up.

                  • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    I have no idea but itā€™s not a ā€œcommon sense definitionā€ or whatever bullshit you claimed. Looks like a Wikipedia entry to me.

                    All that to say that you have no counter so you moved onto the next bullshit straw man that you pulled out of your empty vessel. Iā€™m done with your inanity.

        • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Claiming to be a Christian means nothing.

          So words mean nothing again according to you, now only the actions count. Someoneā€™s arguing in circles.

          Claiming to be a Christian has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a Christian by the common understanding of the word.

          ā€œWe are what we pretend to be, so we must careful what we pretend to be.ā€ - Kurt Vonnegut

          • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Claiming to be aā€¦

            When did I ever claim that words meant anything in terms of whether someone was something?

            It does not. Weā€™ve already covered this. Are you mental? A claim to be something doesnā€™t make someone that thing. Do I need to keep repeating the ā€œgolferā€ and ā€œmusicianā€ examples? Iā€™m not arguing in circles. You seem to be twisting yourself into knots, though.

            Tell me you donā€™t understand the Vonnegut quote without telling me you donā€™t understand itā€¦

            Edit: Just as nonsensical - ā€œClaiming to be a golfer has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a golfer by the common understanding of the wordā€. Oh really? I thought it was whether or not you play golf that determined if you were a golfer.

            • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              When did I ever claim that words meant anything in terms of whether someone was something?

              Iā€™ve lost track of the post, but at some point you were saying someone canā€™t be a Jew if they deny the Commandments or something similar. Now, by your logic maybe a ā€œdenialā€ is some sort of action, but denials by common definition usually take the form of words, not actions.

              Now, if actions are all that count for someone to be considered ā€œa Christianā€ or ā€œnot Christianā€, only a complete knowledge of every action a person ever took or will take would suffice for qualifying them or disqualifying them as Christian. So then again, youā€™d have to basically be God in order to determine which people were Christian. Rendering the definition pointless.

              ā€œClaiming to be a golfer has a lot to do with whether or not people consider you a golfer by the common understanding of the wordā€. Oh really? I thought it was whether or not you play golf that determined if you were a golfer.

              How do other people know whether or not you play golf?

              You arenā€™t a thing only when youā€™re actively doing it.

              • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                Iā€™m going to ignore the first half of this post because you completely missed the point of the Ten Commandments example. I suspect youā€™re just actually that dense and arenā€™t being intentionally obtuse or feigning confusion.

                You arenā€™t a thing only when youā€™re actively doing it

                Of course not. But youā€™re definitely not a thing if you donā€™t do that thing at all.

                • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Of course not. But youā€™re definitely not a thing if you donā€™t do that thing at all.

                  Who the fuck was arguing that you are?

                  • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    Againā€¦read up like 2 posts back. Thatā€™s the entire point here. Remember? If you donā€™t play music, you canā€™t call yourself a musician. If you donā€™t golf, you canā€™t claim to be a golfer. Are you really that dense? I genuinely canā€™t tell if youā€™re a troll at this point.