Sanders notably attributed the war in Gaza to Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and “the right-wing Netanyahu government” — not to Israel in general.
This extremely obvious distinction seems to get completely lost in every discussion on the topic. I like Israel and they have the right to exist. I don’t like far right conservative governments run by corrupt war criminals (but enough about Bush…).
Absolutely. Just like caring about the fate of innocent Palestinians doesn’t mean rooting for the Hamas terrorists. Another distinction a lot of bad faith actors conveniently ignore in order to shift the narrative.
Respondents were asked to what extent Israel should take into consideration the suffering of the civilian population in Gaza when planning the continuation of the fighting there. Forty-one percent of the Jewish respondents said “to a fairly small extent,” and 40 percent, “to a very small extent.”
In part because there are people actively and deliberately muddying together the Netanyahu government and Israel (as well as Israel and Jews) so that any criticism of the actions of Israel or Netanyahu can be labeled “antisemitism”.
That’s because israel are killing all of the women, children, israeli hostages, and israeli soldiers, they aren’t worried about Hamas fighters just quite yet.
I mean yes, October 7th targeted military targets first and foremost. Even if you blame all casualties on Hamas (which is very much wrong; Israel shelled their own citizens during the attack) you’re looking at a military casualty ratio of 33%.
“The sample size of this poll is 1231 adults, of whom 750 were interviewed face to face in the West Bank and 481 in the Gaza Strip in 121 randomly selected locations.” So 72% of only 1231 people is an accurate representation for the opinion of over 5.4 million people?
Literally 1% of Israelis believe that Israel is using too much force in Gaza. The majority believes they are using too little. If Israelis had their way the genocide would be even deadlier than it is today. This is not a state or a society that should be allowed to exist in its current state. The state has to be dismantled to deprogram the fascism and genocidal ideology that it is built on and perpetuates. This is not going to happen peacefully because they refuse to let it happen peacefully, not because anyone wishes suffering on them sadistically. A system of oppression and murder that refuses to be dismantled nonviolently is going to be dismantled by force. That is the only just thing to be done and the responsibility for it lies on Israel wholly.
Citizens should be moved into the same category as their government. The exact same way liberals lump all Republicans together because they support trump. They believe the same Zionist bullshit that they are gods chosen people (echoes of Germany Master race ideology) and it’s their land. They elected Netanyahu because they support his ideology.
No, I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting the Israeli people back this war. It’s not Netanyahu’s war. I’m not so sure another Prime Minister would be any different, perhaps worse. Bernie is in a long line of people that don’t like Bibi. I’ve been there for years. But, there is no use dressing this thing up as one person’s fault.
I would have killed myself in shame if I presided over israels national defense on Oct 7. Nothing has proven the utter stupidity of national sovereignty than watching the man retain power “to see through the war”
All a commander in chief needs to do is fail to defend his country…and he has an excuse to stay in power. It encourages failure. It’s insane.
No but it helps create a narrative that might allow Israel to get out of this saving face with a scape goat for their lust for genocide.
The people of Israel are absolutely super excited for their new property every time they conquest but having a “wrong leader” that pushed them to do the atrocities means they can “dump him and turn to be better” and if they are lucky all the blame goes to the figurehead. Pretty classic play and if the people of Israel actually want peace one of the only outs they are gonna get.
This extremely obvious distinction seems to get completely lost in every discussion on the topic. I like Israel and they have the right to exist. I don’t like far right conservative governments run by corrupt war criminals (but enough about Bush…).
Absolutely. Just like caring about the fate of innocent Palestinians doesn’t mean rooting for the Hamas terrorists. Another distinction a lot of bad faith actors conveniently ignore in order to shift the narrative.
Absolutely.
There are essentially 4 groups that need to be discussed here. The governments of Palestine and Israel, and the civilians of Palestine and Israel.
The governments are both murderous monsters who feed off of each other to fuel their hatred and justify genocide.
The civilians are the Innocents being killed and displaced.
This is not a black and white issue though, that is to say: not all civilians are innocent, and not all officials are monsters
Fuck me, real world is hard =/
Don’t just discount that both populations are supporting their respective governments
One side has a leader with 30% of the vote and the other side hasn’t voted for 20 years…
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
https://www.haaretz.com/2012-11-19/ty-article/.premium/poll-90-of-israelis-support-the-war/0000017f-e71f-df2c-a1ff-ff5f214f0000
One of your polls is from 2012, wtf… You’re pulling these out of your ass.
Do you think it changed after the october attack?
https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20231220_05/
Feel free to cite sources to the contrary though
In part because there are people actively and deliberately muddying together the Netanyahu government and Israel (as well as Israel and Jews) so that any criticism of the actions of Israel or Netanyahu can be labeled “antisemitism”.
I mean Netanyahu has been winning elections since 1996 (granted there was a gap in the middle) so the election is getting dubious.
And 72% of Palestinians believe the October 7th attack was “correct”.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
That’s because israel are killing all of the women, children, israeli hostages, and israeli soldiers, they aren’t worried about Hamas fighters just quite yet.
I mean yes, October 7th targeted military targets first and foremost. Even if you blame all casualties on Hamas (which is very much wrong; Israel shelled their own citizens during the attack) you’re looking at a military casualty ratio of 33%.
“The sample size of this poll is 1231 adults, of whom 750 were interviewed face to face in the West Bank and 481 in the Gaza Strip in 121 randomly selected locations.” So 72% of only 1231 people is an accurate representation for the opinion of over 5.4 million people?
https://pcpsr.org/en/node/963
How do you think polling works? If you had to “ask everyone” to have data, we wouldn’t have any…
Literally 1% of Israelis believe that Israel is using too much force in Gaza. The majority believes they are using too little. If Israelis had their way the genocide would be even deadlier than it is today. This is not a state or a society that should be allowed to exist in its current state. The state has to be dismantled to deprogram the fascism and genocidal ideology that it is built on and perpetuates. This is not going to happen peacefully because they refuse to let it happen peacefully, not because anyone wishes suffering on them sadistically. A system of oppression and murder that refuses to be dismantled nonviolently is going to be dismantled by force. That is the only just thing to be done and the responsibility for it lies on Israel wholly.
I don’t bother explaining when I comment, “Fuck Israel.” If people don’t realize that I’m referring to the government then I have zero to say to them.
Would you assume someone was referring to Hamas if they said “Fuck Palestine”?
Yes. Until I discover otherwise.
Citizens should be moved into the same category as their government. The exact same way liberals lump all Republicans together because they support trump. They believe the same Zionist bullshit that they are gods chosen people (echoes of Germany Master race ideology) and it’s their land. They elected Netanyahu because they support his ideology.
Removed by mod
Did i hurt your little feelers?
It’s very much Israel’s war, not Netanyahu. Bernie’s wrong. Isreal supports the war, not Netanyahu. Another Prime Minister might have made it worse.
You’re really suggesting that Netanyahu doesn’t want this war?
No, I’m not suggesting that. I’m suggesting the Israeli people back this war. It’s not Netanyahu’s war. I’m not so sure another Prime Minister would be any different, perhaps worse. Bernie is in a long line of people that don’t like Bibi. I’ve been there for years. But, there is no use dressing this thing up as one person’s fault.
I would have killed myself in shame if I presided over israels national defense on Oct 7. Nothing has proven the utter stupidity of national sovereignty than watching the man retain power “to see through the war”
All a commander in chief needs to do is fail to defend his country…and he has an excuse to stay in power. It encourages failure. It’s insane.
Bibi will be gone after the shooting stops. It’s happened before in Isreal. He currently has 15% approval FFS.
So he just has to keep the shooting going.
I’m sure he’s aware of this too.
That can last only so long. The money spent and Israel’s lack of productivity will stop it.
That’s what Biden is for.
No but it helps create a narrative that might allow Israel to get out of this saving face with a scape goat for their lust for genocide.
The people of Israel are absolutely super excited for their new property every time they conquest but having a “wrong leader” that pushed them to do the atrocities means they can “dump him and turn to be better” and if they are lucky all the blame goes to the figurehead. Pretty classic play and if the people of Israel actually want peace one of the only outs they are gonna get.