I’m going to try and keep this clear and concise.
I’m not confident in my parenting. I don’t feel like I’ve been a good parent, but I have done the best that I can with the tools and resources that I have.
My 18 y/o has lived with us since she was 4. My partner has been in my 18y/o’s life since they were 13 months old.
18y/o is copy->paste of their deadbeat mother and I don’t know what to do about it. I don’t know what I can do about it at this point.
I have tried to instill structure, while allowing wiggle room at times. I recognize that it’s my job as the parent to draw hard lines and it’s my kids job to push the boundaries and cross those lines.
18y/o is almost mute around us. Doesn’t communicate much of anything beyond surface level ‘pleasantries’. And it’s more often than not, anything but pleasant. They (biological female) are diagnosed with ADHD, ‘change disorder’, anxiety and depression. I’ve done so much reading trying to figure out this person and how I can help, but nothing seems to help. Kid has never really be honest with therapists. Lies for no reason, and doubles down even when presented with irrefutable evidence that they’ve been caught. If I had to ‘self-diagnose’, they have ODD and are a sociopath, but I’ve seen how they behave around friends and peers. They only have disregard for us. Outside the home, they are a people pleaser. But if we suggest something, or ask for something to be done, it’s a fight, every time.
They are a senior in high school, is a good student when there’s nothing rocking their boat, but had steadily declining grades as the school year presses on. I have no idea what’s going on in their life, everything is responded to with a random selection of the following list:
I don’t know
I don’t remember
I don’t know how you want me to answer that
Do you want me to respond?
I don’t see what the problem is.
I don’t see how this is a big deal.
The current argument is regarding whether we should be expected to wake them up for school in the morning. I’ve already put my foot down about it, and since December 1st, they’ve already walked themselves to school twice because they overslept.
They are impossible to motivate. When things finally come to a head and an argument breaks out, which typically boils over because there can be no constructive conversation with someone who is either unable or unwilling to have a conversation. And only when the argument breaks out do we get any action on anything, and then it’s an overcorrection. For example, we’ve been pushing for them to fill out scholarship applications for 8 months. We’ve had friends provide spreadsheets with links to what we collectively think are viable scholarships, for no action responses. Then when we finally get a break in the wall, they fill out scholarship applications for tens of thousands of dollars for enrollment in a school states away with misleading GPA information. We are not in a financial position to accommodate that kind of enrollment, even if we wanted to support the decision. It comes off as an “I’ll show them” move.
Nevermind the drivers license thing. Can’t get them to get off their ass and get their license. It’s been a battle for 2 years. Something always goes wrong. Last time I pressed on it hard, we ended up in intensive outpatient therapy.
They’re unmanageable and I don’t know what to do for or with them. Our home is small, 800 sqft and it’s a hell hole. My partner has almost left me twice over this kid’s behavior over the years. Partner and kid do not get along at all at this point, and has lead to a false CPS report so my kid could try and move in with their crush’s family.
There so much context missing but there’s no time or room for 18 years of back story.
I don’t know if there’s a question here, but I need help or support, or something. Any stories or advice anyone cares to relay would be appreciated. I’m terrified that once this kid leaves, I’m never going to hear from them again. But I can’t control that, and I recognize it.
Thanks for reading.
I think there’s a lot that you aren’t telling us. You seem to focus a lot on their behavior and on the behavior of their mother (who isn’t in the picture, is that right?), but are not giving much of a description of how you or your partner behave towards them, beyond the forceful adjectives like ‘push’, ‘press’, and ‘drill’. That’s a huge element, as it takes two to tango in relationships.
You also speak of them in extremely derogatory terms like “getting them off their ass” or “not letting them freeload like their deadbeat bio mom” or calling them a fucking sociopath??? I can only imagine that they pick up on that lack of respect for them and respond accordingly. Kids aren’t stupid.
It seems like you have a lot of unresolved issues that you might be taking out on them and if possible I would echo the other commentor recommending therapy—but for YOU, as an individual.
This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.
This could have been written about me by the parents I do not speak to anymore.
Samesies. And it can be said the same about my kid by me. Fortunately he’s only 4. That’s why I’m in therapy.
That is so awesome, I’m glad you’re in therapy and working on yourself. It’s hard to unlearn those toxic behaviors. I’m expecting my first and am trying to find one for myself; my biggest fear is treating mine like I was treated because it’s the only parenting model I know. Thankfully my spouse comes from a much more loving environment and has helped me so much just by being an example of how a supportive family should function.
Wishing you and your family the best
Story time.
The really funny thing is that the turning point in my relationship with my parents was when I googled a friends name. He was a musician.
I had a CD of his that I lost in a car that I sold to a rando on Craigslist a few years prior to our story.
When I googled him I found a blog where he had started documenting restoring this car (a 1990 Volvo wagon, of all things). He had found my friends CD. The blog went dark after only a few posts but I was intrigued. He catalogued a few other things of mine he found in the car, namely a wig that I used in a costume, and an herb grinder (which he documented as a wig-care-product) and I was amused at the stories he was coming up with for my stuff.
Googled the guy. Found him on an enthusiasts forum for this type of car (honestly the internet is an amazing thing).
Found a post from him from where he was introducing himself and plugging the aforementioned blog a couple days after the first blogpost.
In the post, he talked at length about the process of buying the car, including a very specific anecdote from when we test drove it.
I wasn’t home to actually handle the sale of the car. My dad was. And apparently my dad ranted to this complete stranger about how much of a shit kid I am. In so much length and detail that this random person felt the need to retell his rant on the internet to countless other random strangers, including me…said shit kid.
That rant sounded exactly like op.
Next place my mind went…what are the odds that of all the random strangers my dad meets in a day, and out of all the people in his actual circle, the only one he vented to about me would also write a post documenting it for me to stumble on by accident? Probably zero. Ergo he must’ve been talking shit about me to anyone who would listen.
In retrospect I admit I was a shit kid (well, presenting as a shit kid). But in retrospect I also realize that I was through a pit of depression and anxiety and a ton of shit that came along with it. And later diagnosed with ADHD. In retrospect, it should have been painfully obvious to anyone, but especially my parents. But instead of doing anything constructive, it was met with hostility and anger and resentment, and fights constantly broke out over petty shit.
Thats why I feel fine admitting that I was absolutely acting shitty at the time, but I don’t feel fine repairing that bridge after reading all the things he said about me to a complete stranger. What a massive gut punch it is to read such hurtful things about you, from your own father, on a public forum.
I understand where you’re coming from, and yes, there’s 18 years of context missing. I’m self aware enough to recognize that this comment has made me a little defensive. I had hoped that by providing some additional context throughout the conversations I’ve been having all day would fill in some of the gaps but I also understand that these are conversations and not necessarily followed by everyone who has been kind enough to send their opinions.
Defensively, I’m speaking out of frustration and emotion, to a space that doesn’t involve my teen. That should have some weight in this conversation, but your criticism is valid nonetheless.
The short condensed version is that it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths. 13 years of being told by professionals that we need to stop berating the teen to which we’ve been forced to send pocket recordings of events to professionals to disprove what our teen has been telling them was fact. Our teen asks for nothing, expects everything, and doesn’t say please or thank you. We did not raise them this way. Those lessons have either been forgotten or flat out abandoned in their disdain for us.
Our teen doesn’t respect us, our home, our rules. We’re not allowed to expect anything of them, yet they expect everything from us, and without question. Obviously there’s a certain level of providing that a parent is expected to do for their children, but an 18 year old senior in high school is trying to tell me that it’s expected of me to wake them up at 6:30 in the morning if they sleep through their alarm because they were up all night playing fortnite or hanging out on discord. I don’t think so.
And to clarify, I didn’t call them a “fucking sociopath”. Sociopathy is a clinical phrase. Would you feel better if I called it ASPD or anti-social personality disorder? Like I get it, beinc called a sociopath has been bastardized by slang, but it’s still a diagnosis. Albeit, maybe a little antiquated.
Please realize, you’re accusing them of being like this since they were 5 years old. They were barely more than a baby. Of course they’re going to lie, they were a little kid. Of course they weren’t going to follow your rules to a T, they were a little kid. They had no ulterior motives, and yet you’ve completely demonized them as if they did. Since they were FIVE dude.
You’re speaking of them like they are 35 and you’ve been dealing with their shit for 13 years, but they were only 4 or 5 when you too them in. You’ve been raising a child that you’ve been treating as if they’re a monster and are shocked that they don’t respect or like you very much.
Yes, I am aware that you didn’t use the word “fucking” before calling them a sociopath. That was my own emphasis on not being able to believe that you’d rather believe that of your child instead of having empathy for them. I think you’re trying to hide behind breaking everything down to seem very logical to try and rationalize your actions/behavior towards your child over the years.
Again, as a child that came from a similar environment, if you have any wish of salvaging this relationship, I would focus heavily on some introspection and accountability, and hope they’d be willing to accept some sort of apology in the future. I really wouldn’t be surprised if they were angry at you for a long time.
I’ve already addressed some of this elsewhere, but I felt it necessary to follow up directly. My teen has always been troubled. They have always been highly sensitive. Since they were 5, when we became a stable fixture in their life. We have provided anything they have asked for, from extra curriculars, to personal support as we were able. My teen is a pretty good artist. I work in the fine art reproduction field. I own my own company. I can tell you unequivically (albeit in my opinion), that while my teen has solid artistic talent, they’re not unique with their style, or subject matter (character designs). When my teen is given an assignment to break out of that preference, they shine. They excel. But it’s never because they want to. They’re an extremely talented photographer. They currently use my Nikon D200/D70. But they have never picked up the camera unless it was a school assignment. I have even offered to buy a new camera body, but like most things, it appears to be a passing ADHD phase. They achieved Junior Black Belt and up to Blue in senior when they were younger. The only rule we ever had was that they needed to participate in an extracurricular. One. Singular. It was up always to them. And only when a shouting match breaks out is there ever a push to do something else. Moving into ice hockey was another item where they were skilled, seemed to be enjoying themselves, but they claim to not remember any of the people they played with who are peers at their school. A one year stint in color guard, where they genuinely seemed happy followed that before another breakdown and it became much harder to encourage the participation.
My teen has been through several friend groups, and we only ever hear their side, and about how everyone else is wrong or has wronged them. It’s a pattern of behavior that becomes clear over time. I understand that I didn’t detail any of this out. I honestly wasn’t expecting as harsh as a response as I’ve received. I also tried to be pretty forward with my comments that I am not claiming to be right. I’m claiming to be stuck. The fact that I’m reaching out at all, and am actively engaging should be an indicator that I actually give a shit and am trying to figure out a path forward. A path to be better for my teen. I have empathy for my teen. I recognize that they’re struggling. The difficulty is that while they’re struggling, it’s my cross to bear and that, in turn, means I’m struggling.
I don’t think that expecting an 8 year old to know they have to pee or not, and further, an 8 year old shouldn’t be fighting back tears because of our reluctance to believe them when yell at us that “they don’t need to go” when we insist that they try to use the bathroom before we go on a walk or a road trip or whatever.
I don’t think that a 7 year old should be stealing from special needs classmates because they want the thing more than the special needs classmate needs whatever that thing is.
I don’t think that a 10 year old should be telling anyone who will listen that all we do is yell at them while we’re able to disprove it with audio and video playback. *Edit: I don’t think parent’s should ever feel that this should even be necessary. How do you think it felt to me that I had to do this? How do you think it feels that I feel the need to protect myself from my kid?
I don’t think that we, as parents, should be subjected to incoherent rants blaming us for scenarios that never happened. I understand that my teen is troubled. I have often wondered if someday they’ll get a schizophrenia diagnosis because of their insistence that whatever their brain has convinced them has taken place, in realty only took ever happened in their mindplace.
I don’t believe that we should have to accommodate someone who fails to communicate because a conversation doesn’t go exactly how they have prepared for. If we stray from the script they have prepared, then their world melts down.
My teen has mental health issues. I am woefully unequipped to deal with them, especially any longer. Once they turned 14 in our state, I can no longer force them to see their therapist. I can no longer force them to talk to their psychologist. I can no longer enforce them to take their meds. I can make strong suggestions, but that goes nowhere, as I’ve evidenced elsewhere in this comment thread. We have maintained as long as we’ve been able to. And at this point, I’m just trying to salvage my relationship with them. I hope you can understand.
My teen has always been troubled. They have always been highly sensitive.
Okay, I am REALLY not seeing all this education about ADHD you claim you have.
Of [curse redacted] course they have always been troubled and “highly sensitive” (aka ADHD). It is a LIFELONG CONDITION. In order to be life long it has to be there from their first breath to their dying day. In fact, as a diagnostic criteria for this label it has to be life long, not caused by some later-occurring trauma.
You act as if this is an excuse. No, dude, you are just telling us that your child has ADHD over and over and over and over and over again in ways that I can tell that YOU don’t know you are. This is like ADHD 101. Where the [curse redacted] did you get your education? Almost watching two whole YouTube videos done by clickbait artists bullshirting? (this last bit meant to provide levity; I heard the whole “you didn’t research, you almost watched two whole YouTube videos” somewhere and thought it was funny) I suspect that you have sought information, but that you’ve been ill served by resources you took to be credible that were instead abelist bias-pushing. If Dr. Gabor Mate was at all in your research folder, then just know you’ve absolutely found your way to the wrong information. You are looking for Dr. Ned Hallowell and Dr. Russell Barkley.
You are and continue to be completely unskilled in parenting ADHD. Please own this. Once you do, then you will be open to positive changes. Else, you’ll lose your child. Parenting a child of a neurotype you do not possess is all in the logic brain and cannot come from the intuition brain.
Edited because I read other comments of yours – You seem to have had incredibly poor luck in the ways you reached out for help. Not all therapists, in fact I’d be wiling to say it is a minority of therapists and they are specialists, are able to assist a neurodivergent household. Neurotypical therapy DOES NOT WORK for a neurodivergent home; in fact it harms more than it helps. Your local CHADD or ADDA chapter will be able to point you to therapeutic professionals with neurodivergent qualifications who can provide actionable guidance to make things better. This level of therapeutic professional you need is a very niche specialist who only deals in neurodivergence. So one of the hallmarks of someone who isn’t able to help is someone whose PsychologyToday profile offers therapy for more than just neurodivergent families/households/individuals.
Okay, I am REALLY not seeing all this education about ADHD you claim you have.
All of my experience with ADHD in and around my life I’ve never met someone as highly sensitive as my teen. I have never met anyone as bad as them. Ever.
Being combative is no way to engage in a conversation. Here’s the deal, my teen is an adult now. This post came out of years of frustration, and adaptation, and guard railing, and thinking for them, and being their crutch, and being their advocate. You can blame me all you want, it doesn’t change that they are my burden to raise and care for and I have done the best that I can with the tools that I have, which I admitted at the top weren’t the greatest. I’ve tried to put the right people in place to assist where I was unable. What else would you have me do?
Respectfully, take your bleeding heart elsewhere.
All of my experience with ADHD in and around my life I’ve never met someone as highly sensitive as my teen. I have never met anyone as bad as them. Ever.
You probably have. There is something called masking where people pretend to be less neurodivergent than they really are (especially in public). What you have probably seen is people putting their best face on and then having to decompress when they get home. Happens all the time often unintentionally.
As a parent it will seem a lot worse to you because you’re exposed to them at home. This is probably made worse by the fact your relationship is the state it is. Honestly maybe you should just let them rest at home, dealing with school and/or work everyday is probably challenging enough for them as it is without being pushed at home as well. Like you can’t push yourself in all areas at once unless you want burnout.
Honestly some of this stuff is just average teen behavior anyway.
it’s been 13 years lying, deceitful and sneaky behavior, provable fabrication of events, and denials of truths
Okay, but that’s just typical child-with-ADHD. Show me a child with ADHD and I’ll show you a liar who fabricates events and denies truths.
Would you like to know why? Read on!
Because the child with ADHD has been held to standards that are absolutely completely out of whack with who they are biologically (yes ADHD is a biology condition which is why medication is effective). But being children, they aren’t able to articulate. So they lie because it ‘makes the problem go away’. What problem?
The parent asking them if they’ve done their homework. They say yes instead of – No, I haven’t done my homework yet because despite wanting to, I cannot get my body to cooperate with my desires. I absolutely intend to have it done by the time it is due, I’m a good child who enjoys homework and wants to meet those expectations. I’ll do it as soon as my body starts following my brain’s directions and sits down/picks up a pencil. If I tell you I haven’t done it yet, you’ll ask me, “Why?” and I just cannot explain to you because though TheInfamousJ is able to type all this out, that’s because she’s 22 years my senior so has learned a lot of metacognition I don’t have seeing as how my brain isn’t even finished developing yet. I don’t have the words. So yes, Dad [or whatever parent you are], I’ve done my homework because by tomorrow afternoon this statement will be true anyway and it saves me from having to deal with your ish about me, my brain, and how completely unacceptable it and I am to you. … except that time where my body starts following my brain’s directions? It never came before the homework was due. I need help. But you are punishing me rather than assisting me.
and so it goes
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They haven’t seen a therapist in a year and only take their meds when they “remember”. College is only a conversation we’re having because they want to be a character designer (which is a job that doesn’t exist). When we bring up our concerns, we’re not being supportive. Like, the conversations are impossible.
I have set the expectation that they will not be permitted to freeload. That what their mother did, and I will never fall victim to that again.
What do you mean by “character designer” is a job that doesn’t exist?
Video games, movies, books, any entertainment has “characters” and someone has to create them, right?
Stop comparing your child to their mother, they are their own person. The problems you’re having are with her and not her mother. Give your child the grace to experience life for themself.
At this point in their life given their age your only option is to help paddle their boat, be pragmatic and help them on their journey. It isn’t your journey anymore, you’re just along for their ride.
Prior to the rise of generative ai, there were a collective of 8-15 positions in the United States for a character designer. Speaking very broadly, it’s typically a contracted position, and not steady work. Usually undertaken by a design firm that does other things as well. I have only been able to have that conversation with them very recently that they should aim for that position, but be prepared to have a more diverse toolset. It’s been a fight every time. All I’m asking them to do is look outside of their bubble. And even then, only managed to get any traction when they couldn’t find “character design” as a collegiate major.
I am not comparing them to their mother. I am protecting myself from what I have already experienced both with the mother and themselves and setting my expectations. If I allowed it, my kid would just melt into their bed at every waking moment. And that isn’t an exaggeration. Either they go to college, or they prepare to pay rent. I’m not typically this kind of person, I’d rather nurture a much healthier relationship, but I feel like they haven’t left me with much choice. There has been ~~nothing ~~ very little rewarding about being a parent in this relationship*, and I’m tired, worn out and sad.
*Anything that I have taken an interest in to try and be supportive has been met with a slapped face of push back.
There are thousands and thousands of people designing characters for money at any given moment in our world. You don’t go to character design school, get a character design degree, and then get a job designing characters. You learn to write, make concept art, 3d modelling, animation, wardrobe, make up, or acting, then take those skills and join a team doing that portion of the character design work. But often it’s the writers who create the soul of a character, that’s where they should start unless they’ve specifically interested in creating how they look. Get them into a screenplay writing course or something?
That’s my point, they only want to design characters. Suggesting anything more is clearly preposterous and how dare I. It’s taken 3 years of having the same conversation to get my teen to realize that you need more than that. They’re impossible to communicate with, and more often than not, frustration takes over. Simple conversations become marathons of trying to force understanding from both sides.
And this is how it’s always been. 😮💨
Perhaps there’s a breakdown in communication that you’re missing.
They want to be a character designer. They have a very set definition of what that is, and they see it as a sole persons job. Ultimatey, they don’t have the exposure to reality to conceptualize how the corporate (or even the starving-artist) world works to know that a single “character” has multiple levels to their design that are each a very integral part of the finished product, and each of those requires a very specific focus and set of skills…whether that be concept art, clay modeling, 3D modeling, graphic design, wardrobe, voice-acting, makeup, backstory, dialogue, etc.
Helping them to understand that will help them to understand the need to specialize, hopefully towards something they already have some natural aptitude in. And that specialization (as a writer, or artist, or fashionista) will have value in job markets outside of whatever field they peg “character design” in. Now they have multiple career options while still being able to practice the craft that brings them enjoyment.
Helping you to understand that may help you to understand why so much “character development” is contractor work. Except it’s not just the piecemeal nature of it, that’s just how corporate world is now. Steady W2 work is hard to come by for a lot of careers in the space between “high school diploma or GED required” and “must have at least 3 post-graduate degrees in a related field and 20 years of work experience in a field that only existed for 10”.
Just don’t stress the multiple options too much. They sound like the type of person who would get analysis paralysis. That’s not a bad thing in itself, it means they are very aware of action/consequence…it just leads to some bit of anxiety which then results in a stalemate.
18y/o is copy->paste of their deadbeat mother
I am not comparing them to their mother.
These two statements would seem to contradict each other, so I hope you can forgive people here for being confused on this point.
Are you going to therapy? Everything you’ve written points to an extremely dysfunctional relationship with your child. It might help.
Good luck, but TBH I don’t really see this improving. It’s not an easy dynamic to untangle/defuse.
We have been in family therapy on and off over the years. We’re currently in an off period. When in therapy they make little sense and resort to whst I can only describe as incoherent babbling fabricating things that never happened. We’ve had several therapists stop them and tell them that they’re not making sense or questioning something they said only for our teen (I should stop saying kid) to respond with “Nevermind I can’t get the words out” or “well it made sense to me”.
Part of this is just emotional speaking, so forgive me if there’s some contradiction. Just because I say they ware copy paste, in my eyes that’s not a comparison, as much as it’s context. But I understand your point.
Ah, I think I understand. You’re seeing parallels without meaning it in the sense of comparing them? But the context is lost on me; I don’t know any of the sins of your ex.
Re: therapy, I meant individual therapy, for yourself, to unpack your relationship with your kid. If things are as bad as you describe, I do think it would help.
Beyond that, well, I don’t know. The list of responses from your post smacks of your kid thinking “This is a trap question, no matter what I answer, I’m going to get in trouble” (especially the “I don’t know how you want me to answer that” one). Are they into stuff that you’d flip your lid if you knew about? Are they just afraid that you’ll be unsupportive if you know what they’re actually thinking? All this is hard for a random internet stranger to know.
I’ll say it again, good luck. I wish I had something more helpful to tell you :(
I should add, kid isn’t even a good household citizen or even as far as roommate goes. They have literally two responsibilities, clean up after having a meal cooked for them, and keep the recycling can from overflowing. They never do either of those things unprompted and it always boils over into a fight eventually. Screen door never gets latched and we have to dedicate an entire day to laundry because it won’t get done on its own or in a timely manner. They take no responsibility for anything and everything is someone else’s fault to them. We often take the brunt of the anger whenever something tips their apple cart, whether it’s biomom or school or a rainy day. It matters little.
It honestly sounds like you could cut the tension in your house with a knife.
Y’all need to chill. You both need individual therapy so you can both figure out a constructive way to unpack your relationship and essentially fight a proxy war between your two therapists.
Moreover, you two need serious, positive, parent/offspring bonding. You need to realize that your kid doesn’t feel welcome in your house or around you. They feel trapped because they have no other option. This is a highly stressful situation. It’s met with tension and panic and fight/flight/freeze. This is plain as day to see if you step back and breathe for a moment. Figure out something you two can enjoy where there’s little outside responsibility and maybe the two of you can share a smile. It sounds like you desperately need that.
Trust me, I try. Constantly reaching out. Never reciprocal. Sporting events, concerts, breakfast, we’re doing something every week, teen is always included in the conversation, always “no”. We haven’t had game night in years because I gave up trying to get them to join us.
we’re doing something every week
get them to join us.
Join kid. What does kid like to do? Can you go along to it?
Kid is clearly not part of “we”. Kid needs to be part of “we”. Otherwise, for all the lip service you are doing about how you are reaching out, you’ve othered kid.
Your kid really sounds a lot like I did at that age. Reclusive (that may come across as lazy), hotheaded, etc. If you hadn’t already, I implore you to read my response to another commenter giving a story on how that played out.
This sounds like depression on top of all else. I wouldn’t take the reclusiveness personally. Shutting you out like that is them metaphorically curling up into a ball and shutting off the outside world.
It’s funny because I was just thinking about that point in my life, when I was going through depression. It’s obvious to me, looking back, but hindsight is 20:20.
I thought about this, because my nephews dad has stage iv cancer, and I worry about him and what he’ll do without his dad around (I never personally cared for the dad, I wish him well and got no ill will towards him, we just never clicked, but the nephews a good kid and a blank slate who got handed shitty parents with money who try to use the money to make up for being shitty people….but I digress).
Anyways, final stop on the thought train…I started wishing that I had some sort of adult mentor/life-coach/confidant…someone with wisdom, who is open minded, and most importantly not my parents. Essentially a therapist but in a much more casual level. Like Tommy Chong in That 70s Show. A second dad. I feel like uncles are supposed to fill that role but it could really be my trusted mature adult they have a close relationship with.
Somebody like that would have been so helpful in dealing with all the pressures that went along with being a teenager (and I’m sure it’s actually a million times worse now, with social media and being always on and hustle-culture and a quite uncertain environmental and political future (and that, for your kid, probably even worse being LGBTQ), on tops of just getting through school. There were a million things I needed guidance on but just could not talk to (gasp) my parents about. We just didn’t have that kind of relationship, and I had nowhere to go.
Does your kid have anybody like that? Because it sounds like they desperately need someone older and wiser to speak candidly about their life with, and they aren’t seeing you as that person. And don’t take that personally. I’m sure you had plenty of things you needed to talk to an adult about when you were growing up, but wouldn’t dare think of asking your parents, too.
Aside from that…the bonding activities that you suggested…are these things that they enjoy? If there’s depression then they may not want to be out eating in public with their dad. Let alone being in a large crowd (especially if they are neurodivergent and can get overstimulated easily like at a concert).
Thinking critically if you’ve shared these events in the past, did they really enjoy it? Or were they trying to make you happy, or did they feel obligated (and now, being older, they maybe now feel a bit more confident in saying no).
How’s the weather where you are? Maybe a nice walk or a bike ride. Something quiet. Calm. Casual. Where there’s privacy enough for a good conversation but still not feeling totally isolated with you. And as corny as it sounds, light exercise is really, really good for depression. Something about sunlight and fresh air that just does your mind good.
only take their meds when they “remember”.
I will never fall victim to that again.
maybe consider that it is your resentment of their mother that you are clearly projecting on to them, and your ignorance and dismissal of neurodiversity that are the problem, not the teenager trying to develop and exist in what amounts to an unsupportive environment, your whole post oozes of it.
Ever consider they don’t want to go to college? Or to drive? Ever stop for second to think what the world is like for someone with ADHD and depression? Why those things might be undesirable? (edit to clarify: driving and college being undesirable to a neurodivergent person, not neurodiversity being undesirable)
You’re not interested in who they actually are, since you’ve already decided for yourself (“copy paste” of your ex) and are treating them accordingly. You are the fucking parent.
You’re right about one thing - once they leave they probably won’t want anything to do with you, and it’ll be the best thing for them, but the fact that you’ve convinced yourself that it is out of your control rather than solely in it says it all.
I received a text that said “all done” after their shift at work tonight. I said “I’m on my way”, arrived my teen got in the car said “hey” I responded ‘whats up’ and we drove home in silence. No “thanks for picking me up” nothing at all. And when my partner said “you know you could thank your dad for picking you up” my teen responded “I did”. They did not.
They are rude, and have abandoned any lessons we instilled when they were younger with us. They have decided what kind of people we are as well. The relationship is disfunctional, for sure, but it is not solely my fault. I have tried to provide support networks, they have been on therapy since they were six.
Please try and understand that this has gotten worse over the years even whole in family therapy and one on one therapy for all of us.
I said “I’m on my way”, arrived my teen got in the car said “hey” I responded ‘whats up’ and we drove home in silence. No “thanks for picking me up” nothing at all. And when my partner said “you know you could thank your dad for picking you up” my teen responded “I did”. They did not.
The response is, “I hear you telling me that you did. I believe you. Your brain is telling you that you did. My brain is telling me that you didn’t. So, help me out here, and do it again so that I can shut my brain up?”
Because you do believe them, right? Otherwise you are insisting they lie to your face. “Hey, I know you aren’t thankful whatsoever but I’m going to need you to say the exact opposite to me, k. Give me a full 180 degree lie from your actual feelings on the matter. I’m not interested in you, just in rituals.”
Also, it is super great that your kid is rude to you. I know it doesn’t seem that way, but it means that despite all the rest of your dysfunctions, kiddo feels secure in your unending support. We fawn where we think we stand to be abandoned. Kiddo isn’t fawning. Kiddo knows they won’t be abandoned. That’s a great seed from which a beautiful relationship can grow once some brambles are trimmed back. (Note, this rude-is-good is only for child-to-parent. No other relationship can this rule be applied to.)
and only take their meds when they “remember”.
Those quotes better be because you are direct quoting them and not because you are trying to induce doubt. It is very well known that people with ADHD have trouble remembering (notice, no quotes here) to take their medication. ADHD is an executive function disorder; meaning they have executive dysfunction. Memory is an executive function. What safety net does the family have for the child’s memory failing them? What are your guardrails?
Have you actually planned, strategized, restructured around the needs of one of the inhabitants in your home?
You know the old adage, “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.”? Looks like no matter how many times your child has their typical struggles, as their outsourced executive function coach and substitute executive function, you haven’t done your part. It’s not shame on your child anymore ;)
I’ll give you a gimme and if it helps, then you can follow up by engaging the services of an ADHD coach – For those who forget to take their medication, put the medication AND WATER next to the bed. Set two alarms. The first one they wake up and take their meds without having to move anything more than their arm. Then they can go back to sleep. The second alarm, a half hour later (because most ADHD meds reach efficacy a half hour after consumption), is their real get up for the day alarm. They should be able to get up more easily due to the efficacy of the medication. It will take 102 practice days, so for 102 days, you need to get up with the first alarm and supervise that the medication has been taken. After that, the routine will be well worn in so that it can be relied on.
Or, if that’s too much effort on your part – Talk to their psychiatrist about moving them to a non-stimulant. Nonstimulants build up in the system and can tolerate several skipped days while still offering benefits. Stimulants cannot seeing as how they lose efficacy within 24 hours.
I hear you. I understand that ADHD is an executive function problem, well informed. The guardrails have been in place for years. We have provided tools. We have provided suggestions. Solutions, and even asked “What would work for you?”. We’ve worked with therapists and psychologists to try to instill habits, but my teen is extremely headstrong and wickedly (falsely) independent. There is nothing more I can do for them unless they want to ask it of me.
My teen learns nothing from their experiences, and does nothing to instill their own good habits. At 18, what else am I supposed to do for them? I’ve been trying to help for years.
Talk to their psychiatrist about moving them to a non-stimulant
In my state, this was off the table at 16, when my teen decided not to waiver me to advocate for their mental health care because they were (and to some degree still are) convinced that I am the source of all that is wrong in their world. I can’t fix that.
You talked an awful lot about your kid.
How are you doing?
Your 18yo sounds like a grown up version of my 4.5 year old. Honestly if you said the arguments were about potty training we’d be talking about the same person.
How were they, when they started living with you full time, with regards to pottying? Difficult? Regressive? Headstrong?
I ask because how you are doing, because I started seeing a therapist for my own struggles with parenting. And it’s probably the best thing I’ve ever done. It really gives a chance to reflect and get honest constructive feedback on how I approach and handle interactions and discipline and whatnot. Most importantly, how to deal with stresses of parenting a difficult kid and not criticize yourself too harshly at every setback.
Please, if you haven’t already, consider a therapist for you, preferably one who specializes in family issues.
Hi.
Not great. I’m actively looking for a therapist because I can’t keep feeling this way.
They have always been difficult. We were told by one therapist “buckle up, because it’s only going to get worse”. Positive reinforcement always led to regressive behavior. Negative reinforcement
I have felt so little positivity from being a parent. I wanted nothing more than to be present and participate in the milestones everyone always talks about. But my teen has made every one of those events a literal fight. Maybe it’s their anxiety and it manifests and anger or whatever, but they can be so hurtful and mean. Then they flip it and tell everyone who listens that it was my fault, and that I don’t support them, or I berate them or whatever. Like, how can any of that be true? I respect their pronouns, and orientation, and who they choose to keep their company with. I ask for bare minimum “with who/where/when” questions, and ask for updates when plans change (I don’t get updates). Then I have to put on the caring parent face when they come home upset because Tammy knocked their Boba over or whatever. We have been clear that all we want for her is success in life, and to be happy with who they partner with and to be safe.
And for what? To be lied to again? To be ignored again?
Its demoralizing and depressing. I’m so sad and I’m looking for a therapist.
You two are stuck in a feedback loop. It’s a really tough spot to be in until you realize it and work on it.
Anxiety in a hostile environment (or the perception of being in a hostile environment) will be met with reciprocal hostility. And then things escalate, and then repressed, and it continues. You two are fanning each others flames. You may be more alike than you realize or care to admit.
Good luck finding a therapist. Remember it’s a lot like dating…you may get lucky on the first meeting, you might find yourself completely incompatible with them, or you may find someone that you’re comfortable enough with to build a good rapport with over multiple sessions.
I appreciate you. Thanks.
No worries. Good luck.
Please see my last comment (chronologically, before this one in my profile). Your initial post hits especially close to home for me because I’ve been on both sides, both as a parent (currently, feeling the same type of frustrations, albeit not as fermented), and as the kid (having been in the position your kid would be in if finding this post a couple years from now).
Not much to add to the topic, but just wanted to point out that you shouldn’t really ‘self-diagnose’ as you call it. For example ‘sociopath’ is not really a diagnosis anymore.
The kid’s an adult now. In my household that would mean a place to live at long as they are in school full time, working full time, or convince me that their alternative is actually reasonable. You also have a list of basic chores for them that are fair based on an even split. Other than that you get the help you ask for. It sounds like the lesson your kid needs to learn now is how to cope with things after your parents stop micromanaging you and it all falls apart.
To get to that point you have to be willing to let everything fall apart. If they move out to couch surf, or be homeless, or something else, you tell them you love them and if they ever want help you will welcome then back and help them figure things out.
But until they want that, they won’t take it.
This is helpful to me. It reminds me a of a conversation I’ve had with with a friend with a similar neuro divergent family member. So thank you for the reminder.
How can we as a family unit enforce those basic chores to be completed? It’s been a trigger fest for ten years and has been the number one issue in our home. Chores are never and have never been done without becoming a problem. I’ve never done the roommate thing so this kind of conflict resolution isn’t something I’ve ever dealt with.
My issues stem from my teens expectations of me. They expect me to wake them up for school or expect me to pick them up from work. It’s absurd.
It sounds like the lesson your kid needs to learn now is how to cope with things after your parents stop micromanaging you and it all falls apart.
This sounds like something my therapist helped me realize about both my kid and myself.
When things come easy and naturally, we (my kid and myself, possibly your kid as well) appear as rockstars, and we feel as rockstars. We get recognized and praised for things that we excel at with little effort.
Thats great and all…until effort is needed. And then panic. And the natural response to that is fight/flight/freeze.
Compounding that, we let perfect be the enemy of good. Subliminally, failing with minimal effort is more acceptable to us than putting in a ton of effort for anything that won’t stroke our egos more than something that comes easily.
This is basically perfectionism.
Now, add ADHD to that and you’ve got quite a mess. You’ve got someone who can easily hyperfocus on things that you don’t want/need them to do, because they get that sweet sweet dopamine…and they are going to hyperfocus because it’s so much easier than working hard and not getting the dopamine.
Honestly I don’t think there’s much to do for it except realization and cognitive behavior therapy. For both of you. Your part is equally important. If they complete a task you need to show honest appreciation for it, even the small stuff. Your tone in these posts comes across as a bit frustrated and fed up. If that tone carries across to your conversation with your kid, they will pick up on that and it’ll contribute to the feedback loop…”why should I even bother if dad doesn’t care”.
Celebrating small victories (tincluding he “participation trophies” that boomers love to joke about while they themselves popularized them) isn’t about empty gestures or making everybody feel special just for warm and fuzzies. It’s a subtle psychological trick to prevent exactly what you’re facing.
Regarding the chores, I’d say you can’t require it, but in my household that would have been where my allowance money comes from. No chores, no money.
They will have to make a choice, maybe several. Your job right now is to let them learn what consequences each choice brings with it so they can start learning to chart their own course.
I had started to write a lengthy response on mobile before others had commented, but after the conversations which were had, most of that is now unneeded.
The short version is: After high school, if you have any relatives willing to take her in, send her that way. It’ll be much better for everyone.
I would also try to get someone in her life that she will listen to.
It’s not that she doesn’t listen, it’s just that she hasn’t been given a reason to care. I’d imagine that at some point(s) through the years, she did try to ‘be better’, only for it not to match up with expectations, and subsequently learned that being absent as much as possible would yield easier results to handle.
And on her plus side, at least she actually has something she wants to do/be after school and with the right encouragement, could actually avoid the years of meandering I went through from living in a very similar situation during my teenage years.
The only thing I can offer you is that motivation isn’t the currency of the ADHD brain. Importance isn’t the currency of the ADHD brain. The only currency of the ADHD brain is INTEREST. As in, “Oh, this is interesting to me.”
It sounds as if school isn’t capturing their interests. Can changes be made so that school is interesting? Harder classes? Different electives? Anything?
And trust me, you don’t want unmanaged ADHD behind the wheel of a car. There’s a reason we of the ADHD brain have a shorter life expectancy on average, and that’s because the deaths that bring down the average are almost all vehicularly related. I’d back off that expectation until the ADHD is under control.
Is there a psychiatrist in play? Medication ought to be lowering the activation energy/removing or easing the barrier-to-action between your child and the things they are interested in and actually want to do, and it sounds as if that isn’t happening.
As a parent with ADHD and a parenting coach with lots of experience parenting ADHD children (though none my bio kids; my own bio kid is too young for their ADHD to be any of the known struggles) – You have to back down, not ride harder. Sure, one of the ways to overcome the barrier-to-action is unholy terror which puts in place fight-or-flight and can get one over the barrier BUT existing in that state endlessly is super duper bad and leads to serious hard burnout and trauma from constantly being The Problem. I know that riding them has been effective thus far, but under the hood, the way it has been effective has done long term harms. As a family, you all need to learn new management and coping skills. You need to stop overfunctioning. Family therapy (which is different in nature than couples therapy or individual therapy) is the direction to go here. ADHD isn’t a person’s problem, it’s a family problem. Especially when it involves a child who need parents to teach and guide them in to how to exist as prosocially as possible with the brain they never asked for but nonetheless were given. You aren’t teaching them how to exist with their brain, you are teaching them how to exist with your brain; they don’t have your brain. ADHD isn’t a malfunctioning neurotypical brain any more than neurotypicality is a malfunctioning ADHD brain. Both are okay and both are different. Think horses and zebras - both okay, both different, both rideable, both with manes and tails, both with hooves, both about the same size, but a zebra is not a malfunctioning horse nor a horse a malfunctioning zebra. A horse cannot teach the zebra how to horse, it would be bad for the zebra.
My own Mother called my ADHD Father some names (deadbeat is the one you chose to call) and when I realized I related to my Father due to same neurotype, I realized two things: (a) my mother would call me a deadbeat too simply because she doesn’t know how to coexist with a neurodivergent person and so her response is disgust and shaming and (b) living in the house with her was going to be supremely traumatic to me because she’s going to take out her discomfort and ignorance on me in the worst ways. I got out of the house. Your child has not.
Might I suggest that your education come from ADDitude Magazine’s webinar series? It is free as a podcast. And I would like to extend an invitation to you to join the How to ADHD Discord as there is a whole parenting section for advice on parenting ADHD children as well as another section called “Hearts asking Brains”. You, not having ADHD, would be a heart. And the adult ADHD brains can offer insights you might not otherwise have been exposed to.
ADHD isn’t a person’s problem, it’s a family problem
I’m going to hard disagree with you there. I think I understand where you’re coming from, but it’s wholly unacceptable to ask and expect society to bend to the needs of a neuro divergent person specifically with regard to ADHD. I’ll concede that ADHD is a family problem when a person is younger and trying to find their way in the world, but at some point the afflicted needs to figure out how to deal with their neurodivergence and work within the world, and however that looks to them.
If I can be so bold, reading through your comments is frustrating, because while you might be a parent with ADHD (while assuming I’m not familiar with the struggles), and a parenting coach, it’s clear to me that as a parent of a younger child, you very well may learn something you don’t expect to in the years to come. It’s easier to be an expert with regard to other peoples struggles on the internet. Some people are more compassionate, some people are more patient. But everyone has a limit. I don’t believe you’ve found yours yet and I hope that you never do.
In the future, stick to your lane. This post, is helpful. You’ve responded to different lines of conversation and different levels of presence (and patience) in my communications with other people. At this point, after reading posts in which you’ve attacked me, why would I consider anything you’ve said? I understand that you might advertise as a parenting coach, but respectfully, you have a terrible way of framing your advice on a forum, especially if coming late to the party. You’ve responded to me emotionally, isn’t that like the number one thing they teach you not to do as a coach or therapist?
I was a young teenager with depression and had a psychotic break. It was probably the hardest point in my life (I’m now a 36 year old father). Your child sounds like they might be having an extremely hard time computing all the changes they’re going though, and possibly having identity issues. It’s gotta be hard.
It sounds like you’re doing the best you can, I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself. One thing my dad did for me when I was younger was tell me if I ever needed anything, if I ever needed an exit because there was stress I couldn’t talk about he was there and there would be no questions asked.
If you can’t get a word in, maybe write them a letter and let them know how you feel. Let them know that you’re concerned, but if they need space then don’t worry, just let them know you’re there for them. They must be going through something and if they need anything - you’re there for them. They are just becoming an adult, I wouldn’t dismiss them as becoming like their birth mother or as someone you cannot see eye to eye with, that would drive a wedge between you. They are figuring out who they are and what being an adult is. Life is really hard, and for some people it begins to be hard as soon as our adolescence begins.
It sounds like they are at the point where they don’t want to be at home. It also sounds like you are the only one still trying to get through as your partner and kid are both done with each other. Why are you holding on?
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Follow up question, how do we parent someone who needs the help but makes it a traumatic issue every step of the way? Like they give me nothing to work with, but feel that I’m expected to make sure they’re awake in the morning because “my friends parents wake them up and it’s not a bid deal”
My 16-year-old son has a similar background and behaviour. In spite of our constant support, non-judgement and patience, we get only rude, sullen responses, tantrums, and zero cooperation. Thank you for sharing your story because it shows I’m not the only one going through this. It feels like hell.
We try not to take the bait when he initiates conflict. We also face high expectations from him in terms of looking after his needs and wants (rides, spending money, feeding him) with nothing but ingratitude and grief in return. We keep catering to him because we feel like that’s the only way to stay connected. He is testing us and perhaps wants us to reject him.
We also want to make sure he has safe transportation, a decent diet, and so on. Sometimes I imagine that he is so incredibly conflicted and absorbed by his internal struggles that he doesn’t actually have anything left for other people or his own basic needs. That helps a bit.
A commenter mentioned that this all sounds like 4-year-old behaviour. I think it literally is: my kid’s emotional state is like that of a very young child. I wouldn’t expect a 4-year-old to get everything right, and I would be infinitely patient. It is harder with someone who looks like a young adult, but the same patience is necessary.
I don’t have the answers, but I can tell you some things that we are doing.
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Take a break. My wife and I try to find times to get away – for dinner, a walk, overnight, visiting friends. We need the perspective and the respite. Our relationship is at stake.
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Taking our cues from him. When he is willing to engage (even saying hello when we pick him up, say), we feel glad. When he isn’t willing, we don’t push it. We ask him to participate in household chores (walk the dog, empty the dishwasher, etc.), but we don’t lose it when he doesn’t comply. Sometimes he does, and we celebrate that. Our expectations have become very low: Is he eating? Good. Is he safe? Good. Is he going to school (not neecessarily to class, even just to the building)? Good. Everything else is a bonus.
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Going for counselling. He refuses to go to a counsellor, doctor, or any other intervention, but we still do. Sounds like you are also doing this. We have found it essential.
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Patience. We think he may get past this. Most people do. Even if they go through a lot of things in life, more often than not, kids grow into themselves eventually. We try not to overreact, judge, or push things. The status quo is better than most of the alternatives in our case.
Please don’t listen to judgemental people trying to tell you that you are the whole problem. Of course you are all part of it – that’s the nature of relationships, but this is bigger than that.
We are in the middle of this, just like you, so I can’t predict how it will turn out. Hold on and keep trying. Good luck!
Hugs and high fives. Hang in there.
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Thanks for the book lead. I’ll give it a read immediately.
