Ryan grim is such an embarrassment
Great argument. Very deep.
Trying to invite the craziest people in maga over to your side is so stupid. Its suicide for your movement to be seen along side those people.
I never heard people say the same thing when Kamala was touring with Liz Cheney.
There is a surprisingly large anti-establishment voterbase the left can tap into but now everyone wants to do purity testing.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/17/trump-aoc-voters
Ryan Grimm has been constantly attacking democrats for Kamala appearing with Liz during her campaign in a deep red state. Now he wants advocates for a worse position. MTG is one of the most far right conspiracy brained politicians out there her following is among the worst group of people you could possible try and absorb. Its not comparable to asking never trump republicans to vote against trump during a pivotal election. I dont expect much from Ryan Grimm but this is still embarrassing even for him.
Ro Khanna got the Epstein Transparency act passed by working with Thomas Massie. Its not hard to imagine getting MTG (or even better her voters) on board with similarly populist bills given the rhetoric she has engaged in lately. (She has said even her kids can’t afford rent.)
We don’t want people like Liz Cheney who support the Iraq war. A war that even Donald Trump (rightly) said was idiotic. No one thinks the iraq war was a good idea, it doesn’t appeal to anyone to campaign along side the daughter of the architect of that war. It was an idiotic move by Kamala, one of many idiotic campaign decisions by Kamala that led to having Donald Trump as the president now.
We do want more people to support left wing populist policies. Such as medicare for all, free college, raising the minimum wage, lowering rent etc. If they support those policies and happen to be on the right, I’m happy to work with them on those specific policies. I’m even more happy if we can win over their voters by campaigning on left wing populist policies.
This is literally how the new deal coalition was built under FDR. Where FDR won like 48 states for over a decade.
Grimm is correct in his analysis. What don’t you understand about his point?
You’re talking about aligning with an actual crazy person and sane washing their behavior to your already very conspiratorial audience. But its fine because you want to work with her on bipartisan legislation but MTG gave up her political office. As for her base are you going to remove all the illegal immigrants and stop immigration because thats the only way they’d accept any of the populist left policy. What are you going to do when you want to reduce fossil fuels, the military, DHS, the police, protect lgbt rights, protect womens rights, tax the rich. Do you forget what her rhetoric has been the past decade?
What are you going to do when you want to reduce fossil fuels, the military, DHS, the police, protect lgbt rights, protect womens rights, tax the rich.
I already said we shouldn’t give into to their views. I said we should be willing to work with them specifically where they agree with us.
Each of those issues you mentioned could be their own nuanced discussions about how to get more people on board with us.
But take the military for example, conservative voters are already against the war in Iran. Which happened faster than any war in recent history. It took getting Bush out of office to get conservatives to turn on the war in Iraq. It took decades of work by the anti-war left to build that consensus and get people to see war is against their material interest. It is in few peoples interest to continue spending as much on the military as we do.
Progress can be made if people can see it is in their material interest to support progressive policy. I’ll say again this is why the new deal was successful. Take the win when we’ve won the issue. Why are we even debating whether or not we should win on an issue when we have the opportunity?
I meant the people who are defending AOC her perspective on this.
Touring with Liz Cheney does nothing to win over Republicans. Working together with MTG can bring over anti-establishment voters as the article I linked above proves by the overlap of AOC-Trump voters. There is a very large MAGA base which is simply anti-establishment. They do not support most culturally left positions but do support economically left positions and are willing to compromise for both.
How do you know it does nothing? She appeared along side a very well known republican with a long track record and the republican was basically affirming everything she was saying and begging people to vote for her. There is no bringing them into the party its just a clear partnership to try and stop the threat that was trump. That is in no world similar to what is happening with MTG.
The MTG situation is far worse because people like Ro Khanna and Ryan Grimm are sanewashing her. I’m sorry but saying MTG is credible because she spoke out against trump but did absolutely nothing with her power to punish Trump is beyond braindead. The populist left is already very conspiratorial and very well could get swayed to MTGs side we’re seeing that in real time watching them court MTG.
AOC is as usual correct.
You are abiding by pretend morality. This is the same excuse Democrats were using to support genocide in 2024: “No we cannot oppose Israel, people will interpret that as antisemitic”.
The only way this type of “might be antisemitic” slander works is if everyone repeats it without question. In reality nobody cares.
Would you actually be upset if AOC worked with MTG against Israel?
leftwing populist ideas
But only if they don’t realize they’re leftist or socialist ideas. The second they hear that they suddenly don’t like it
