Nothing in international law says you’re not allowed to shoot at something you can’t see. Almost all radar based air defense missile systems can not see their targets.
There’s multiple ways of identifying targets without looking at them. Radar cross sections are not all the same, you don’t just get a target size back. Modern radar systems can make pretty accurate assessments of what they’re looking at - down to different models of planes. Take into account altitude and speed of your contact and you can be very sure what’s out there.
It’s also highly unlikely that an F35 would try to identify a target on its own. They’re heavily networked with ground based radars, other airplanes and there’s almost always going to be an AWACS looking much further and with a more powerful radar. Modern BVR weapon systems also have a two-way data link, so you could abort an attack right down to the very last second.
But, most importantly, civilian airliners have transponders that broadcast an identifying signal. Even a shitty little Cessna has one.
As for the gun: it’s there because people can’t let go of them. Same reason why most air superiority fighters have them. As a last ditch weapon. We have zero confirmation of an air-to-air gun kill from Ukraine, a modern conflict between near peers (and most of those planes are old, compared to the F35). If the F35 is used the way it’s meant to be used it will not be in visual range of any of its targets.
As for the F4 Phantom – AA missiles just weren’t ready yet.
Nothing in international law says you’re not allowed to shoot at something you can’t see. Almost all radar based air defense missile systems can not see their targets.
There’s multiple ways of identifying targets without looking at them. Radar cross sections are not all the same, you don’t just get a target size back. Modern radar systems can make pretty accurate assessments of what they’re looking at - down to different models of planes. Take into account altitude and speed of your contact and you can be very sure what’s out there.
It’s also highly unlikely that an F35 would try to identify a target on its own. They’re heavily networked with ground based radars, other airplanes and there’s almost always going to be an AWACS looking much further and with a more powerful radar. Modern BVR weapon systems also have a two-way data link, so you could abort an attack right down to the very last second.
But, most importantly, civilian airliners have transponders that broadcast an identifying signal. Even a shitty little Cessna has one.
As for the gun: it’s there because people can’t let go of them. Same reason why most air superiority fighters have them. As a last ditch weapon. We have zero confirmation of an air-to-air gun kill from Ukraine, a modern conflict between near peers (and most of those planes are old, compared to the F35). If the F35 is used the way it’s meant to be used it will not be in visual range of any of its targets.
As for the F4 Phantom – AA missiles just weren’t ready yet.