• lemmyshmemmy@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      How is this different from someone saying “let’s just give Hitler Poland”

      Are you saying the Ukrainians should stop fighting? Is that what you would do if someone invaded your home?

      • zephyrvs@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        This rhetoric reminds of the German military’s questioning when pacifists refused mandatory military service. “You say you’re against violence but what if someone threatened your family and you had a gun?” Great intellectual company you’re keeping here.

        • stephen01king@lemmy.zip
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          1 year ago

          How does mandatory military service relate to helping to fund another country from an invading force?

          Should the other European nations not fight against the Nazis when they invaded other countries in order to not ‘prolong’ the war?

          • zephyrvs@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            I’m comparing rhetorics. Read the post I was replying to and then mine again, please.

        • DaDaDrood@feddit.nl
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          1 year ago

          However it’s not rhetoric. It’s cold hard history. Allowing a fascist dictator to invade a sovereign country led to WW2.

    • zephyrvs@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      A lot of people are propagandized as fuck (and I do not mean that as an insult on their intelligence or anyting, good propaganda works really well, even on smart people) and I don’t think most of these comments would survive if the posters spent a bit more time thinking about what they’re actually saying.

      • redtea@lemmygrad.ml
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        1 year ago

        Obviously I don’t know everyone’s political histories. But most people around me IRL who supported the idea of going into Iraq and Afghanistan (they were kind of blurred into one conflict) said, ‘never again’ and have been quite anti-war ever since.

        A few of those backtracked and said, ‘well, maybe one more time’ when it came to Libya. Then afterwards, they said, ‘we really mean “never again” this time’.

        But Ukraine has sent almost everyone into a frenzy for war. I had assumed that after Iraq, especially—which exposed the depth of lying that NATO is willing to sink to—that nobody would believe NATO’s version of the truth again. How naive I was.

        I wouldn’t even mind if they (not necessarily Jaysyn, whom I don’t know) still disbelieved Russia’s narrative. In fact, I’d welcome it. A little healthy skepticism would lead to far better politics. All I see is skepticism against Russia but total faith in NATO. Where has critical thinking gone?

        To disbelieve Russia’s narrative only to accept NATO’s? Wtf did I miss? I don’t think gullibility covers it. As you say, it must be constant and clever propaganda. I suppose they have the money for it, considering how much they have to gain if they can beat the drum of war.

        Edit: grammar

        • zephyrvs@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I’m in the same boat as you are. What has me really shocked is how my European friends are in full “support the troops” mode now. What’s really surprising is how all their arguments almost always follow the same simplistic dualist thinking (“so you think Ukraine should just give up?”, “but it’s a democracy”, “but pUtLeR will take Poland next”, “you’re just spurting Russian propaganda”) and how people basically ignore all of your arguments just to call you a supporter of an “evil imperialist terror regime”.

          I wish people would’ve learned their lesson by abandoning the media that’s obviously been lying to everyone for the past decades.

          • Blursty@lemmygrad.ml
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            1 year ago

            What’s striking about it is how they have no comebacks, they have no arguments at all expect name-calling. You can show them all the evidence in the world and they’ll just call you names. Simple minded morons. Normies.

            • zephyrvs@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Nah, no need for name calling. It’s just effective propaganda and it works best on normies.