To clarify, I don’t believe in the surface level propaganda thrown in China’s way about “1984 dystopian society,” “Mao killed 60 million people,” “Xinjiang concentration camps” or things like that.

I’m curious about a few negative factors of China that have become widespread knowledge over the past decade or so by even the politically literate audience, and I want to learn how accurate these things are, how prevalent they are in today’s society in China, and how much it would impact the day to day life of someone living in China.

  1. Quality control, I have read stories about Chinese factories producing guns, steel, industrial goods, consumer goods, food products, far below acceptable or safe standards, leading to construction/infrastructure failure and severe health complications. There are also claims that smaller restaurants in China today still sometimes use very low quality ingredients that can result in serious health issues. How much of an issue is this?

  2. Population issue. The Chinese population trend is going in a unfavorable direction right now, and there are reports of young people not wanting to have children because of cultural and cost reasons. How much of an issue is this, and will China end up like Korea and Japan in another decade or two?

  3. Unemployment, it is a fact right now that Chinese people have a 20% unemployment issue due to an abundance of university graduates without sufficient jobs to match this supply. And this has caused internal competition to swell to unreasonable standards leading some people to straight up give up on their careers and become full time neets. Are there any positive trends or actions to resolve this issue?

  4. Education. The education system sounds terrifying in China right now, children as young as elementary schoolers having to sleep only 6 hours a night to finish their homework from school and tutoring services. I have also read that after the government banned tutoring of core classroom subjects, illegal tutoring services have become a thing. I would laugh at how this would be the most asian issue ever if I wasn’t so horrified by the situation. Is there any government effort to resolve this right now?

  5. Nepotism. From what I have heard and read, using connections to obtain positions and resources in China is still very common. How bad is this, and are there any reforms or policies tackling it?

  6. Mannerisms and emotional intelligence of the average person. There are frequent complaints about Chinese people being horrible tourists, being extremely rude, having the emotional maturity of a donut until at least the age of 30, and also taking advantage of anything free to disgusting levels (I have personally seen old Chinese ladies take out a container and fill it with ketchup from a restaurant where the condiments are self served). I understand the reasoning behind this, China in it’s current iteration is a relatively new country, and the education received by different generations varies massively in quality, with only really Gen Z on average obtaining a level of education that is on par with western populations. I just want to ask how bad this is in day to day life, and if it is tolerable.

Thanks for reading my somewhat long post, I’d appreciate any response, you don’t have to respond to all of my points, any point would be fine. I want to have a positive impression of China but these points are really bugging me right now.

  • Munrock@lemmygrad.ml
    171·
    1 year ago

    1. “I have read stories about…” whose stories?

    2. “there are reports of…” whise reports?

    3. Who came up with the “20% unemployment” statistic?

    4. The government banning private tuition om core subjects is part of a huge platform of education reforms, but you only ever hear about ‘banning’ and negative consequences. Do you really think they just banned tuition centers and won’t do anything about attempts to evade the ban?

    5. “From what I have heard and read” come on now. From what I have heard and read China is one of the few places where this kind of corruption gets punished.

    6. Can you not see how this is just pure racism?

    Apologies if my tone comes across as a bit harsh, but I find all of these points being framed as credible talking points insulting. The way China is constantly being held up against these vacuous economic and cultural benchmarks that other people aren’t subjected to.

    It’s like “I’ve heard stories about how some people in China get really drunk in the evening and sing loudly and come to work with a hangover; what is the government doing about this?”

    Or “There are reports that many couples in China get divorced after having children, forcing the children to be raised by single-parent families. Is the government doing anything to prevent relationships from souring?”

    • Khabib@lemmygrad.mlOP
      47·
      1 year ago

      This is an internet message board, apologies if my choice of vocabulary doesn’t meet the standard of a research paper, but you seem to have glanced over half a sentence of every point I wrote and then attribute the worst version of that topic possible onto me.

      1. If you deny the matter of fact that Chinese goods have received an overall negative international reputation for being disproportionately low quality until at the least the last 20 years, then you would just be wrong. The posts below have done a good job responding to why this is a necessary transitioning step towards industrialization, and statistics do indeed show an improvement of this trend which is great.

      2. ??? https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/12/05/key-facts-about-chinas-declining-population/ https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/CHN/china/population https://www.worlddata.info/asia/china/populationgrowth.php Are you denying that birth rate is an upcoming issue for China to face? Again the question of discussion here is whether this is a significant enough issue to harshly impact China’s economy and growth, or whether other factors such as China’s transition to a more skilled and educated workforce will be enough to offset this, not if this issue exists or not, which it most certainly does.

      3. According to links below, the Chinese national bureau of statistics. The age range they picked to measure from was the problem, not the number itself which is true.

      4. At this point I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, or if you are just trying to be as condescending as possible. If it wasn’t explicit enough, I am in favor of the bans over paid tutoring of core subjects because it gives an unfair advantage to richer families… As for illegal tutoring services, I don’t think the Chinese government will do nothing about them, that’s why I’m asking in one of the only pro-China english forums if anyone knows what specifically they are doing…

      5. Again I didn’t formally state this point in the style of a thesis because I didn’t think anyone would deny the matter of fact that China, or at least sinospheric countries, have historically suffered uniquely significant amounts of nepotism. Xi’s anti-corruption campaigns were a welcome start to addressing the issue. However anecdotes can prove at least the continued existence of corruption in China, my question was to try to quantify the extent of which it still existed at, if there are any ongoing current actions tackling it, and how the situation compares to western countries (which admittedly have been getting worse in this regard over the years).

      6. No?? Racism would be saying “Han people are inherently ugly because they have squinty eyes.” That’s not at all similar to what I said. What I did was I identified a behavioral pattern amongst a group of people from a shared cultural group, based on my own experiences, friends experiences, that match existing stereotypes about said group; which while not being sufficient to dictate an absolute conclusion, should at least justify having the desire to inquire about such behavior no? Especially since I am asking a community where said ethnic group has a positive reception, which should imply I am trying to learn instead of reinforcing prejudices in an echo chamber, I seriously don’t see how my question can be perceived as anything more than somewhat insensitive in delivery.

      I won’t respond to the end of your post which is just a splattering of non sequiturs.

      • NormalC [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        61·
        1 year ago

        No?? Racism would be saying “Han people are inherently ugly because they have squinty eyes.” That’s not at all similar to what I said. What I did was I identified a behavioral pattern amongst a group of people from a shared cultural group, based on my own experiences, friends experiences, that match existing stereotypes about said group; which while not being sufficient to dictate an absolute conclusion, should at least justify having the desire to inquire about such behavior no? Especially since I am asking a community where said ethnic group has a positive reception, which should imply I am trying to learn instead of reinforcing prejudices in an echo chamber, I seriously don’t see how my question can be perceived as anything more than somewhat insensitive in delivery.

        This is such a roller-coaster of a paragraph to read. But yes:

        “Mannerisms and emotional intelligence of the average person.”

        Comes off as just a tiny bit insensitive to this English speaking comm, maybe even a bit infantalizing. Cultural stereotypes are like wet sand. You can provide any sort of “meta-historical” explanation for why the “average person” is like that and be pleased with yourself. I understand if that wasn’t your intention, but it was not a good way to frame your question, nor was your reply.

        • Khabib@lemmygrad.mlOP
          14·
          1 year ago

          First of all, that’s not what infantilizing means, infantilizing means I give off the impression of assuming a group of people are dumbasses based on the way I’m treating said group. In fact I would say the way you’re posting, typing out some elementary school explanation of stereotypes which implies you assume I’ve never heard of these talking points, after reading everything I wrote, is actually being condescending.

          Explicitly stating something and then proceeding to ask a question quantifying to what extent these circumstances are true, within a space where the group of people have an overwhelmingly positive reception, is about the least offensive way you can talk about cultural stereotypes, especially one which is overwhelmingly reinforced by me and my friends personal experiences.

          In a purely philosophical sense if you want to ignore all normative arguments, context, and reality then sure, you can say all stereotypes are the same nonsense and reaffirm existing biases. In reality, some stereotypes are more real than others, and sometimes stereotypes are completely accurate (not implying this one is), it depends on what we’re talking about so it helps to actually focus on the topic of discussion (in this case mannerisms of Chinese people), instead of rambling off a bunch of general talking points to a generalized version of the topic of discussion, and then loosely attributing it back to what I said.

          In this case the actual Chinese people below have confirmed that some of these stereotypes do disproportionately exist in Chinese culture amongst the older generation, the explanation that these people act the way they do after having experienced famines and poor education when China was still industrializing is understandable and makes sense. Actually quantifying a stereotype and explaining why they exist is so much more effective at resolving prejudices than acting like a caricature from some 2016 SJW video now don’t they?

          I stand by what I said. What I posted was at most slightly insensitive in wording. And based on the countless responses below from actual Chinese people which lead to friendly and productive conversations that gave me a better understanding of these issues, it seems like my message was not interpreted negatively at all by almost anyone who it actually pertains to. In fact it’s funny how the only people who my wording actually offends are non-Chinese people.