For Gajeel to get where he got, much, much more had to happen. The type of stuff I’m not sure Mashima knows how to write.
The only reason Vegeta sorta works for me, is that it’s handwaved off as having occurred off-screen. But even then it’s not a well done character redemption.
Both of these series aren’t the type of stories that get into that stuff, so they expedite all the self-improvement and interpersonal stuff involved… But when you do that, pairing a character like Gajeel with his literal assault victim, doesn’t work.
It’s a story about guilds fighting each other, calling it abuse is a stretch. They all did this stuff to each other, yeah a few take it further, but without that you don’t have a story/villian.
Also, you seem to accept that this and that can be glossed over, but stop at this arbitrary line? Seems weird, that’s all.
I called it assault. As in an attack. And unlike in a battle, where you fight to achieve a goal, Gajeel caused pain simply to cause pain.
The line isn’t arbitrary, you can gloss over a villain switching sides.
You cannot gloss over a villain going from this:
To this:
Without making at least some readers queasy along the way.
The level of mental trauma Levy would have suffered wouldn’t be a joke. Making a relationship even with a fully stabilized Gajeel, questionable.
Instead Mashima makes her one of the first to be understanding towards him, when her mental state should be closer to the kind where mentioning him causes a panic attack.
When things go into PTSD territory, when you get to the type of stuff that IRL causes people just drop relationships rather than figure things out, you simply can’t take things in certain directions while glossing over the steps to get there, without evoking visceral disgust in a lot of readers.
Fine. Have Gajeel switch sides and redeem him. Do not have him canonically pair off with and impregnate an underage girl he brutally tortured and crucified.
They didn’t gloss over it, there was plenty of arcs where he constantly improved himself and showed how he changed, despite your claim that never happened.
So why do you think he didn’t change? You’ve provided no examples, yet all the arcs show how it happened through his actions.
Again, with the narrative you are free to ignore and interpret the stories your own way.
I don’t remember the story to that extent. I remember being disgusted with how his character was handled.
You brought up points about the story I couldn’t recall, but even if his change was displayed, it wasn’t enough. It would never have been enough, not for where Mashima went with things. The endpoint we got should have been off-limits regardless.
Also, if I’m free to interpret things how I like, who is downvoting me?
Me since you kept arguing the same thing without addressing anything I brought up. As I said you ignored the good things he was doing, since you already thought he was passed redemption.
Which is very strange for an anime that you already said had to move fast and gloss over stuff. So why not gloss past this like everything else before you already did?
It’s a fantasy world where everyone literally beats the shit out of each other for fun, they obviously have vastly different views than you, so why would they even balk about it….? You’re projecting your own personal world view on a fantasy world… some people’s justice is literally I beat the shit out of you, we are best friends now, it’s not real fucking life lmfao, if it was a realistic manga, sure yeah you may have a point, but that’s neither here nor there.
You may be taking this a little bit too seriously if you draw arbitrary lines like you’re doing with a FANTASY media……
It’s a piece of entertainment media/art. It is intrinsically linked to the real world at least in the sense that a real person created it.
A component of it did things with the characters that me and a lot of other people don’t like. End of discussion.
I don’t understand why you feel there is anything here to talk about, or any way or even reason for you to try and convince me that my position doesn’t have legs to stand on.
Pairing Gajeel with Levy, doesn’t work for me because it causes a negative emotional response of visceral disgust. It doesn’t fucking matter how much sense it makes within the context of the fictional world, when all I can imagine is how fucked the author must be in the head to think fans would enjoy that development.
And when I further think on the fact that a lot of them did enjoy it, and that it might even have been pandering to that exact group of people, the disgust gets worse.
He is past redemption. Within what is possible in the type of story Mashima wrote, going from A (Gajeels crime) to B (His romance with Levy) cannot be done.
I’m not ignoring what you brought up. If that stuff was in there, I have nothing to refute and you’re right. But it also doesn’t matter. You have a point that his switching sides is nothing unusual, and done well, but that isn’t the specific part I have a problem with.
I said that these series gloss over some things because they are told superficially, but that also makes certain turns impossible without turning off your reader.
One such turn this series attempts and fails to make, in pairing off Gajeel and Levy.
And I don’t think it’s enough.
For Gajeel to get where he got, much, much more had to happen. The type of stuff I’m not sure Mashima knows how to write.
The only reason Vegeta sorta works for me, is that it’s handwaved off as having occurred off-screen. But even then it’s not a well done character redemption.
Both of these series aren’t the type of stories that get into that stuff, so they expedite all the self-improvement and interpersonal stuff involved… But when you do that, pairing a character like Gajeel with his literal assault victim, doesn’t work.
It’s a story about guilds fighting each other, calling it abuse is a stretch. They all did this stuff to each other, yeah a few take it further, but without that you don’t have a story/villian.
Also, you seem to accept that this and that can be glossed over, but stop at this arbitrary line? Seems weird, that’s all.
I called it assault. As in an attack. And unlike in a battle, where you fight to achieve a goal, Gajeel caused pain simply to cause pain.
The line isn’t arbitrary, you can gloss over a villain switching sides.
You cannot gloss over a villain going from this:
To this:
Without making at least some readers queasy along the way.
The level of mental trauma Levy would have suffered wouldn’t be a joke. Making a relationship even with a fully stabilized Gajeel, questionable.
Instead Mashima makes her one of the first to be understanding towards him, when her mental state should be closer to the kind where mentioning him causes a panic attack.
When things go into PTSD territory, when you get to the type of stuff that IRL causes people just drop relationships rather than figure things out, you simply can’t take things in certain directions while glossing over the steps to get there, without evoking visceral disgust in a lot of readers.
Fine. Have Gajeel switch sides and redeem him. Do not have him canonically pair off with and impregnate an underage girl he brutally tortured and crucified.
They didn’t gloss over it, there was plenty of arcs where he constantly improved himself and showed how he changed, despite your claim that never happened.
So why do you think he didn’t change? You’ve provided no examples, yet all the arcs show how it happened through his actions.
Again, with the narrative you are free to ignore and interpret the stories your own way.
I don’t remember the story to that extent. I remember being disgusted with how his character was handled.
You brought up points about the story I couldn’t recall, but even if his change was displayed, it wasn’t enough. It would never have been enough, not for where Mashima went with things. The endpoint we got should have been off-limits regardless.
Also, if I’m free to interpret things how I like, who is downvoting me?
Me since you kept arguing the same thing without addressing anything I brought up. As I said you ignored the good things he was doing, since you already thought he was passed redemption.
Which is very strange for an anime that you already said had to move fast and gloss over stuff. So why not gloss past this like everything else before you already did?
Nothing you’ve said makes Gajeel starting a family with a 17-year-old he once tortured to near-death, feel right.
So no, I can’t gloss it over.
It’s a fantasy world where everyone literally beats the shit out of each other for fun, they obviously have vastly different views than you, so why would they even balk about it….? You’re projecting your own personal world view on a fantasy world… some people’s justice is literally I beat the shit out of you, we are best friends now, it’s not real fucking life lmfao, if it was a realistic manga, sure yeah you may have a point, but that’s neither here nor there.
You may be taking this a little bit too seriously if you draw arbitrary lines like you’re doing with a FANTASY media……
It’s a piece of entertainment media/art. It is intrinsically linked to the real world at least in the sense that a real person created it.
A component of it did things with the characters that me and a lot of other people don’t like. End of discussion.
I don’t understand why you feel there is anything here to talk about, or any way or even reason for you to try and convince me that my position doesn’t have legs to stand on.
Pairing Gajeel with Levy, doesn’t work for me because it causes a negative emotional response of visceral disgust. It doesn’t fucking matter how much sense it makes within the context of the fictional world, when all I can imagine is how fucked the author must be in the head to think fans would enjoy that development.
And when I further think on the fact that a lot of them did enjoy it, and that it might even have been pandering to that exact group of people, the disgust gets worse.
He is past redemption. Within what is possible in the type of story Mashima wrote, going from A (Gajeels crime) to B (His romance with Levy) cannot be done.
I’m not ignoring what you brought up. If that stuff was in there, I have nothing to refute and you’re right. But it also doesn’t matter. You have a point that his switching sides is nothing unusual, and done well, but that isn’t the specific part I have a problem with.
I said that these series gloss over some things because they are told superficially, but that also makes certain turns impossible without turning off your reader.
One such turn this series attempts and fails to make, in pairing off Gajeel and Levy.