I’m sorry but, but your plants are literally wilting in the second picture, which you say went better?
Wilting? I mangled them trying to get a second trellis on since they were getting too dense for their stems. You’re diagnosing from an image without knowing anything of the scenario.
I’m saying I’ve read a lot of grow journals and studies, and that’s nothing that I’ve come across is horticulture either, it’s not rooted in science.
And just because you’ve never heard of something… it can’t be true? The plants want to perspire. If they can’t, they’ll keep trying. Since your tent is packed that tight, no matter how much they perspire, they’re not actually losing any water, so they desperately make new avenues for “breathing”.
So if the RH is in check, more transpiration means more water use and more nutrient uptake, larger leaves more energy for the plant to absorb. What’s the issue with any of that? You seem to thinking it’s detrimental, why is it? It’s not wasting energy making these leaves. In other cases maybe.
You keep saying these have no buds, that could be just as much genetic or pheno differences, but that’s also not that the case here.
Trouble shoot what? I started my first message off telling you my school of thought, most of this comes from horticulture and comparative studies, and most people get pissy when science contradicts their anecdotal been doing it for decades. Theres no reason to remove the foliage.
Is it the best I can do? Nope, but that’s why we experiment and grow with each one. Could I get some denser looking buds by culling it more, absolutely, but I would rather have 300g of good bud and 200 grams of mediocre higher THC bud than just 400g of good bud.
So to someone shooting for the 200g of top shelf, of course mine wouldn’t look as good or as picturesque, but I’ve got far more weed that’ll probably average a higher total THC content, but it won’t look as pretty or dense or large.
Edit, I just shoved my hand down on 3 places, now it’s sticky, and no moisture came off. We done here?
I’m not arguing with you about anything. I’m pointing out things I notice, and saying things I think. As pointed out, images do not give the whole story. But they do some of it. If you think those are the best buds you can make and you like it, I have absolutely no problem with that. Nor am I saying mine are better. I’m saying there’s always room for improvement for everyone.
I’m just noting that it’s very common in the growing community to aim for thick colas instead of loose-leaved branches of sticky material.
I was exaggerating a bit with the hand getting actually wet, but there are usually drops of dew on some of the plants, and if you haven’t, well that’s great, innit? I had a friend who was obsessed with pruning though, poor grower — meticulous, but poor — and he waaay over-defoliated his plants (often even because he was looking to dry and smoke some, so reaally really went overboard with it. He had a decent light, but ended getting only bud-like flowers, not proper nugs. Yours are proper, but they have just remind the slightest bit of buds like that, which is why I suggested the defoliation as a cause initially. I may have been mistaken. As I keep saying. I’m not arguing anything. Just telling you my opinions, because I’m not there to know what it looks like there, so perhaps something I say can influence what you perceive, or you can tell me you don’t perceive a thing — as you have, thank you — and it’ll amend my understanding, even though not much, again, because of the limitation of me not knowing much about the grow.
That probably means that it’s a very different genotype from what I grow, and that’s totally fine. I know there are a couple of strains that make really airy buds, but to this extent I’ve seen buds similar-ish (but way worse than yours) due to the same sort of growing style. Might be I’m mistaken, might be I’m not.
I’m just discussing, not arguing anything. The thing I think could be improved is the size of the colas. Surely you’d rather have a thick canopy of colas then leaves? But, like, again, completely up to you.
Hate to trace back so far but to change the subject a bit… you didn’t like the purples on my buds then? (I’m hyped because I rarely get a grow so suitably with this strain I can open my windows and cool the entire room. It’s not a purple strain, just has anthocyanin genetics)
Okay, I’m gonna apologize here, after reflection and rereading, I do think you come across with good intentions, although the advice was unwarranted and I explained my thought process.
It actually seems like you have a very similar thought process as me, let the plant be, unless it tells you otherwise. If I’m missing something, the advice would be nice, but from everything I’ve done and my conditions, it’s not telling me boo. I only had one fan a couple grows ago, lost some colas, couldn’t say if the fan could have stopped it though, but very well could have.
I do know about how to check for moisture by moving a leaf that’s touching another, if there’s not enough airflow or a transpiration issue, there will likely be a pool of water where they touched. This obviously is conducive to mold.
I won’t respond to, but will address your other comment, that jives with what I’ve seen and said. It creates more foliage, not larger, maybe in specific situations that may be possible where there just isn’t enough growth sites that it’s forced to do so though.
My last grow I was treated to both sides of the phenotype scale for the same genetics. One was dense and short, the other was tall with dense popcorn buds. So a picture doesn’t always tell you much, those were strange genetics though, fasciated and everything.
And yes sorry, beautiful plants, I was rewarded with some beautiful purples myself last grow as well, can’t say if they were prone to purple, but the nighttime temps definitely brought out the anthocyanins on my end. I find it interesting that it seemed to be one the ones more exposed to the light turned more purple myself, but that’s also because of my canopy density.
The wife loves the house cold at night, and it was winter, so -30 at night, but the lung room would dip to 15cish.
No need to apologise. No offense meant one way or another.
I let the plant be unlesss needed, except for the part when I purposefully prune a bunch of small branches a week before flowering/during first week. But I don’t defoliate in the sense of just removing mass. When older leaves start going yellow I might give them a bit of tug and help it out but that’s about it.
Yeah it’s always bit shooting in the dark when discussing grows online, as pictures can really mislead.
You seem to got it down for you, and that’s what matters. You clearly understand the business well enough.
Yeah, it’s also nice sleeping in a cool breeze.
The freezes let off last month in Finland (no wait previous now) so I got to keep the window open a bit more. Too cold before that. :F
I was merely speculating and discussing. Thank you for understanding.
And if you have one somewhere easily available, i wouldn’t mind taking a look at your aero. DIY mostly, I presume? (all the best are) as in if you have an image without the plants or smth but nvm, no need.
So we differ there a little, (this is carried over from my old lights CREE cob, still use them for veg tent), I do abuse my ladies during veg, but I try not to remove material. This is to get the 2 plants to stretch out with a flat short canopy, this can also be achieved by letting it go tall and supercropping it over. Week before flower I give it another round of abuse to recover before flowering a week later.
Thats only about 6” from trellis to the aero chamber. And taken around said time. I have carpal tunnel, so I can only do so much so fast, my 21 day trim was days 17-20.
Week 1 time lapse. I wasn’t expecting them to grow 36 damn inches during flower, but I have the light to put high and crank her up, and they kept climbing and climbing. If the ones weren’t so dense, I would be more worried about them light stretching, but my Photone was saying I wasn’t under lighting them, and they aren’t showing light stress, so yolo?
Any leaf issues on colour I would wager on me “transplanting” I had 4 plants (2 clones of last grow fasciation yadda yadda) I had to rip the roots apart to move the one over. I will say I am maybe heavy on the FR, I need to read back up on that, I think I turned it off last grow at day 21. I need to log that type of shit god damn it.
I have another 8 weeks before I think of planting outside, I need to get my starters going for my garden this week. No bus, all personal use and gifts, the genetics part of my user name is for when I decide to experiment with colloidal silver or something. Dream big?
Yeah long story short, it’s the cheap version of the fancy system that nasa figured out. NASA figured out ideal water droplet size for nutrient uptake, a perfect system will spray just enough for a water droplet to start forming on the bottom of the root stock and start to drip off (zero waste). That requires city water pressure type pressure, so $150 pump (all this x2 for both tents) and a $180 bladder tank. So this just atomizes the droplets the best it can, HPA vs my Low Pressure Aeroponics.
I’ve got an album tour of my little slice, it’s got plants, but it shows all the insides and gear I use, no part list or anything like that though. Anyone half handy could probably figure it out.
That’s some dedication to the craft though, basically I have “the same” setup, except you’ve got it significantly improved. Mine’s a hydro (with a rather poor drip at the moment, I need to get new pipes and remake the thing) and I don’t have UV or infrared.
Basically I have the lazy man’s version of your setup. :D
Yeah long story short, it’s the cheap version of the fancy system that nasa figured out. NASA figured out ideal water droplet size for nutrient uptake, a perfect system will spray just enough for a water droplet to start forming on the bottom of the root stock and start to drip off (zero waste). That requires city water pressure type pressure, so $150 pump (all this x2 for both tents) and a $180 bladder tank. So this just atomizes the droplets the best it can, HPA vs my Low Pressure Aeroponics.
Yeah I can definitely see the difference from the roots. Very nice.
Took me a while to respond, wanted to really view the photos on my PC instead of just on mobile.
Idk where you live, but I used to dream of growing outside, and I did, but I live so far up North it’s just not worth it when I don’t have my own yard to grow on. If it was legal and I had my own yard, I’d fucking love to. Or even illegal as now, but had my own yard. I’ve grown out of the phase where I went around planting guerrilla grows in the nearby fields and whatnot. :D It did sometimes give a small crop of something I’d use for extracts, but yeah… here in Finland I’ve managed much better with indoors. Which is a shame. I’d like a fking greenhouse full!
Oh right and yeah, I supercrop mine as well, that’s how I fill out my tent. I have a 1x1m tent and I use two plants there in dripfeeds, very very simple hydros, then I start man-handling when about the 5th 6th pair of leaves starts coming to. I don’t really top them in the traditional sense, as cutting something away isn’t necessary, just break the top node under your fingers gently while bending it. Supercropping, aye. That’ll break the apical dominance, resulting in the plant “bushifying”. Then I let them grow for a couple of weeks and then trim the lowest and smallest branches from below and put them in 1212.
I’m saying I’ve read a lot of grow journals and studies, and that’s nothing that I’ve come across is horticulture either, it’s not rooted in science.
Sorry, skipped this bit.
Do a bit of your own science? Grow say, some autoflower in the side if you have the room and keep radically defoliating it. Not compeltely bald, but a lot. See how the buds turn out. If you want a control, use same seed on another similar pot next to it, but without any defoliation.
And also, yes, it’s definitely based in actual science as well.
Root growth stops quickly after defoliation and fine roots may die (Luo et al., 1995; Jarvis and MacDuff, 1989). Respiration and nutrient uptake also decline quickly after defoliation. These responses, however, may be tempered by the age of the plant and availability of resources. Root growth is also affected by the frequency and severity of defoliation. Alcordo et al. (1991) clipped stargrass (Cynodon nlemfuensis Vanderyst var. nlemfuensis) at several plant and stubble height combinations and observed that root mass accumulation was reduced by up to 97% with severe defoliation compared with an unclipped control.
These immediate responses to defoliation are followed by the long-term process of recovering a positive C balance, metabolic adjustment of the remaining organs, and rebuilding the photosynthetic area (Richards, 1993)
Those are pretty much exactly the reasons I prune only once and then I only take branches / older leaves and then I give the plant roughly a week to recuperate before putting it into flowering (a source of stress)
It’s too long to paste in total but an interesting read well worth it, despite not being strictly about cannabis but defoliation in plants in general.
Wilting? I mangled them trying to get a second trellis on since they were getting too dense for their stems. You’re diagnosing from an image without knowing anything of the scenario.
I’m saying I’ve read a lot of grow journals and studies, and that’s nothing that I’ve come across is horticulture either, it’s not rooted in science.
So if the RH is in check, more transpiration means more water use and more nutrient uptake, larger leaves more energy for the plant to absorb. What’s the issue with any of that? You seem to thinking it’s detrimental, why is it? It’s not wasting energy making these leaves. In other cases maybe.
You keep saying these have no buds, that could be just as much genetic or pheno differences, but that’s also not that the case here.
Trouble shoot what? I started my first message off telling you my school of thought, most of this comes from horticulture and comparative studies, and most people get pissy when science contradicts their anecdotal been doing it for decades. Theres no reason to remove the foliage.
Is it the best I can do? Nope, but that’s why we experiment and grow with each one. Could I get some denser looking buds by culling it more, absolutely, but I would rather have 300g of good bud and 200 grams of mediocre higher THC bud than just 400g of good bud.
So to someone shooting for the 200g of top shelf, of course mine wouldn’t look as good or as picturesque, but I’ve got far more weed that’ll probably average a higher total THC content, but it won’t look as pretty or dense or large.
Edit, I just shoved my hand down on 3 places, now it’s sticky, and no moisture came off. We done here?
“We done here”?
I’m not arguing with you about anything. I’m pointing out things I notice, and saying things I think. As pointed out, images do not give the whole story. But they do some of it. If you think those are the best buds you can make and you like it, I have absolutely no problem with that. Nor am I saying mine are better. I’m saying there’s always room for improvement for everyone.
I’m just noting that it’s very common in the growing community to aim for thick colas instead of loose-leaved branches of sticky material.
I was exaggerating a bit with the hand getting actually wet, but there are usually drops of dew on some of the plants, and if you haven’t, well that’s great, innit? I had a friend who was obsessed with pruning though, poor grower — meticulous, but poor — and he waaay over-defoliated his plants (often even because he was looking to dry and smoke some, so reaally really went overboard with it. He had a decent light, but ended getting only bud-like flowers, not proper nugs. Yours are proper, but they have just remind the slightest bit of buds like that, which is why I suggested the defoliation as a cause initially. I may have been mistaken. As I keep saying. I’m not arguing anything. Just telling you my opinions, because I’m not there to know what it looks like there, so perhaps something I say can influence what you perceive, or you can tell me you don’t perceive a thing — as you have, thank you — and it’ll amend my understanding, even though not much, again, because of the limitation of me not knowing much about the grow.
That probably means that it’s a very different genotype from what I grow, and that’s totally fine. I know there are a couple of strains that make really airy buds, but to this extent I’ve seen buds similar-ish (but way worse than yours) due to the same sort of growing style. Might be I’m mistaken, might be I’m not.
I’m just discussing, not arguing anything. The thing I think could be improved is the size of the colas. Surely you’d rather have a thick canopy of colas then leaves? But, like, again, completely up to you.
Hate to trace back so far but to change the subject a bit… you didn’t like the purples on my buds then? (I’m hyped because I rarely get a grow so suitably with this strain I can open my windows and cool the entire room. It’s not a purple strain, just has anthocyanin genetics)
Okay, I’m gonna apologize here, after reflection and rereading, I do think you come across with good intentions, although the advice was unwarranted and I explained my thought process.
It actually seems like you have a very similar thought process as me, let the plant be, unless it tells you otherwise. If I’m missing something, the advice would be nice, but from everything I’ve done and my conditions, it’s not telling me boo. I only had one fan a couple grows ago, lost some colas, couldn’t say if the fan could have stopped it though, but very well could have.
I do know about how to check for moisture by moving a leaf that’s touching another, if there’s not enough airflow or a transpiration issue, there will likely be a pool of water where they touched. This obviously is conducive to mold.
I won’t respond to, but will address your other comment, that jives with what I’ve seen and said. It creates more foliage, not larger, maybe in specific situations that may be possible where there just isn’t enough growth sites that it’s forced to do so though.
My last grow I was treated to both sides of the phenotype scale for the same genetics. One was dense and short, the other was tall with dense popcorn buds. So a picture doesn’t always tell you much, those were strange genetics though, fasciated and everything.
And yes sorry, beautiful plants, I was rewarded with some beautiful purples myself last grow as well, can’t say if they were prone to purple, but the nighttime temps definitely brought out the anthocyanins on my end. I find it interesting that it seemed to be one the ones more exposed to the light turned more purple myself, but that’s also because of my canopy density.
The wife loves the house cold at night, and it was winter, so -30 at night, but the lung room would dip to 15cish.
No need to apologise. No offense meant one way or another.
I let the plant be unlesss needed, except for the part when I purposefully prune a bunch of small branches a week before flowering/during first week. But I don’t defoliate in the sense of just removing mass. When older leaves start going yellow I might give them a bit of tug and help it out but that’s about it.
Yeah it’s always bit shooting in the dark when discussing grows online, as pictures can really mislead.
You seem to got it down for you, and that’s what matters. You clearly understand the business well enough.
Yeah, it’s also nice sleeping in a cool breeze.
The freezes let off last month in Finland (no wait previous now) so I got to keep the window open a bit more. Too cold before that. :F
I was merely speculating and discussing. Thank you for understanding.
And if you have one somewhere easily available, i wouldn’t mind taking a look at your aero. DIY mostly, I presume? (all the best are) as in if you have an image without the plants or smth but nvm, no need.
So we differ there a little, (this is carried over from my old lights CREE cob, still use them for veg tent), I do abuse my ladies during veg, but I try not to remove material. This is to get the 2 plants to stretch out with a flat short canopy, this can also be achieved by letting it go tall and supercropping it over. Week before flower I give it another round of abuse to recover before flowering a week later.
Thats only about 6” from trellis to the aero chamber. And taken around said time. I have carpal tunnel, so I can only do so much so fast, my 21 day trim was days 17-20.
https://imgur.com/a/juY7miN
Week 1 time lapse. I wasn’t expecting them to grow 36 damn inches during flower, but I have the light to put high and crank her up, and they kept climbing and climbing. If the ones weren’t so dense, I would be more worried about them light stretching, but my Photone was saying I wasn’t under lighting them, and they aren’t showing light stress, so yolo?
Any leaf issues on colour I would wager on me “transplanting” I had 4 plants (2 clones of last grow fasciation yadda yadda) I had to rip the roots apart to move the one over. I will say I am maybe heavy on the FR, I need to read back up on that, I think I turned it off last grow at day 21. I need to log that type of shit god damn it.
I have another 8 weeks before I think of planting outside, I need to get my starters going for my garden this week. No bus, all personal use and gifts, the genetics part of my user name is for when I decide to experiment with colloidal silver or something. Dream big?
Yeah long story short, it’s the cheap version of the fancy system that nasa figured out. NASA figured out ideal water droplet size for nutrient uptake, a perfect system will spray just enough for a water droplet to start forming on the bottom of the root stock and start to drip off (zero waste). That requires city water pressure type pressure, so $150 pump (all this x2 for both tents) and a $180 bladder tank. So this just atomizes the droplets the best it can, HPA vs my Low Pressure Aeroponics.
I’ve got an album tour of my little slice, it’s got plants, but it shows all the insides and gear I use, no part list or anything like that though. Anyone half handy could probably figure it out.
https://imgur.com/a/Dagn0O5
Those roots are looking mighty fine.
That’s some dedication to the craft though, basically I have “the same” setup, except you’ve got it significantly improved. Mine’s a hydro (with a rather poor drip at the moment, I need to get new pipes and remake the thing) and I don’t have UV or infrared.
Basically I have the lazy man’s version of your setup. :D
Yeah I can definitely see the difference from the roots. Very nice.
Took me a while to respond, wanted to really view the photos on my PC instead of just on mobile.
Idk where you live, but I used to dream of growing outside, and I did, but I live so far up North it’s just not worth it when I don’t have my own yard to grow on. If it was legal and I had my own yard, I’d fucking love to. Or even illegal as now, but had my own yard. I’ve grown out of the phase where I went around planting guerrilla grows in the nearby fields and whatnot. :D It did sometimes give a small crop of something I’d use for extracts, but yeah… here in Finland I’ve managed much better with indoors. Which is a shame. I’d like a fking greenhouse full!
Oh right and yeah, I supercrop mine as well, that’s how I fill out my tent. I have a 1x1m tent and I use two plants there in dripfeeds, very very simple hydros, then I start man-handling when about the 5th 6th pair of leaves starts coming to. I don’t really top them in the traditional sense, as cutting something away isn’t necessary, just break the top node under your fingers gently while bending it. Supercropping, aye. That’ll break the apical dominance, resulting in the plant “bushifying”. Then I let them grow for a couple of weeks and then trim the lowest and smallest branches from below and put them in 1212.
Sorry, skipped this bit.
Do a bit of your own science? Grow say, some autoflower in the side if you have the room and keep radically defoliating it. Not compeltely bald, but a lot. See how the buds turn out. If you want a control, use same seed on another similar pot next to it, but without any defoliation.
And also, yes, it’s definitely based in actual science as well.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/agricultural-and-biological-sciences/defoliation
Those are pretty much exactly the reasons I prune only once and then I only take branches / older leaves and then I give the plant roughly a week to recuperate before putting it into flowering (a source of stress)
It’s too long to paste in total but an interesting read well worth it, despite not being strictly about cannabis but defoliation in plants in general.