Iā€™ll start by acknowledging that this isnā€™t my idea, credit to Sam Harris. I also donā€™t know if this is even controversial, but I figured this would be a better place to post than in Showerthoughts.

By consciousness, I mean the subjective experience of what it feels like to be. As philosopher Thomas Nagel put it:

ā€˜An organism has conscious mental states if and only if there is something that it is like to be that organismā€”something it is like for the organism.ā€™

Itā€™s at least conceivable that things like free will, the self, or even the entire universe could be an illusion. For all we know, we could be living in a simulation and nothing might be real. Even if you donā€™t believe that, thereā€™s still a greater-than-zero chance you could be wrong. However, this doesnā€™t apply to consciousness itself. Even if everything is just a hallucination, it remains an undeniable fact that it feels like something to hallucinate. To claim that consciousness could be an illusion is a self-contradictory statement as consciousness is where illusions appear.

  • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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    2 months ago

    Consciousness is not necessary for illusions. Illusions are products of the senses and we know that unconscious things are subject to them. For example a radar glitch can produce an illusion of an object that isnā€™t really there. This occurs whether or not the radar operator is actually present in front of the radar screen, so itā€™s not an illusion of consciousness.

    I also think itā€™s possible to have illusions about whether one is conscious or not. I have personally had fever dreams and found myself in a state where I was not sure whether I was asleep or awake. Similar things can be experienced under the effects of certain drugs, while other drugs can temporarily obliterate oneā€™s entire sense of reality.

    One thing we have established somewhat firmly is that the belief that consciousness is the source of decisionmaking is actually an illusion. In the lab we can detect unconscious mental processes attached to decisions which precede (by seconds) peopleā€™s conscious awareness of having made a decision.

    • ContrarianTrail@lemm.eeOP
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      2 months ago

      I wouldnā€™t call a radar glitch an illusion necessarily. Itā€™s more like an error or a false signal. I think of it kind of like tinnitus; you hear a sound thatā€™s not really there but itā€™s not actually an illusion either.

      Similar things can be experienced under the effects of certain drugs

      The key word here is experience. The fact that youā€™re experiencing something means youā€™re consciouss. Consciousness is where experiences appear wether theyā€™re real or imagined.

        • ContrarianTrail@lemm.eeOP
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          2 months ago

          Youā€™re now ignoring the definition of consciousness stated in my open post. Dreams are happening in consciousness. An unconsciouss being by definition cannot have experiences. Not real or imagined (like dreams or drug induced ones) An example of true unconsciousness would be general anesthesia. You donā€™t even experience time passing. You hear the doctor counting backwards and then youā€™re all of a sudden waking up in a different room hours later. You donā€™t have any experience of the time in between.

          • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world
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            2 months ago

            I wasnā€™t sure of this issue with your argument but youā€™ve clarified it for me.

            Youā€™ve defined your way to a tautology. Youā€™ve defined consciousness as ontologically prior to illusions and claimed the latter is necessarily dependent on the former. Thus it should not be a surprise to anyone that consciousness cannot be an illusion due to the definitional relationship youā€™ve created.

            Unfortunately, this says nothing about the universe out there. Itā€™s as controversial a statement as saying ā€œall bachelors are unmarried.ā€

            • ContrarianTrail@lemm.eeOP
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              2 months ago

              Iā€™m not just saying that consciousness cannot be an illusion. Iā€™m saying itā€™s the only thing that cannot be an illusion.