So i really wanted to ditch windows once and for all so iā€™ve tried Linux for a week trying different distros (debian, manjaro, ubuntu, opensuse, mint) and first of all why? Why are there so many distros out there? Whatā€™s the difference between debian + kde and manjaro + kde? They look the same, they work the same. I donā€™t get it. Also why do things have to be complicated? Iā€™ve installed debian, installed calibre to manage my ebooks, created a library from an existing library on my hard drive (not the one with debian installed), ERROR! All the files are read-only. What??? Iā€™ve followed multiple guides on how to change permissions and finally solved the problem. Now letā€™s restart my pc. files on the hard drive are read only WHAT??? Fuck debian, letā€™s go on manjaro. No problems at all on calibre. Managed to create the library as easy as i did on windows. My question is: whereā€™s the fun in this? Itā€™s just problems, after problems, after problems and i didnā€™t even start gaming. I mean i tried installing retroarch and importing my saves but of course nothing works. Read this guide, read that guide. Nope. Nothing works. Ok, fuck retroarch letā€™s customize the appearance of my desktop: move some icons on the panel, center this, adjust height, move this on the left, spent 30 minutes tweaking, very niceā€¦ kde crashes, all back to default. Letā€™s download some apps. I want as many apps that i already know as possible. Letā€™s see if jdownloader is available for linux. Yep thereā€™s one. Nope, not for manjaro (officially). Thereā€™s a AUR package available. Nice. What do i need to do to install a AUR package? A wall of text on the wiki, 20 minutes videos, yay. Ok letā€™s call it a day. Do i need to live another life to make linux work?

  • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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    1 month ago

    Iā€™ve never, ever got a virus on any of my pcs. I grew up with internet, since the ADSL days, i know my shit.

    Therein lies the problem, youā€™re a windows expert, moving away from your comfort zone will always feel bad. Itā€™s okay to stick to Windows, no one should be forced to use an OS they donā€™t like. But if you ever want to try again, I recommend taking a step back and accepting that for all your years of experience in Windows you are a noob here, and trying to jump into the deep end is more likely to get you drowned than learning how to swim.

    Also I recommend dual-booting, so you have the safe heaven of a known OS to reboot into in times of need. Most of us started that way and dealt slowly with the difficulties in using Linux with a windows user mentality, until at some point we realized we were spending the majority of our time in Linux and Windows had become unusable because we were now thinking like Linux users. Iā€™m sure that if I had tried to do what you did I would also be frustrated, so I completely understand you. But let me tell you something which you might not want to hear, and will possibly even get angry at me for telling you, but thereā€™s a fairly good chance that the majority of issues you encountered were self-imposed. Linux has near infinite possibilities, but thatā€™s like saying the ocean is nearly infinite, it doesnā€™t mean you should try to swim across it just because youā€™re used to doing it on a swimming pool, youā€™ll drown fairly quickly and get nowhere.

    • frengo@lemm.eeOP
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      1 month ago

      the majority of issues you encountered were self-imposed.

      How? Iā€™ve installed Debian with KDE, downloaded the .deb from steam website, learnt to install that using sudo dpkg -i steam_latest.deb, opened the app and iā€™ve been welcomed with a text inviting me to press enter to continue, pretty simple. The program downloaded stuff, steam is ready now. Not bad. Repeated the exact same thing on Debian with xfce, that apparently doesnā€™t come with a software installer, nothing works. An alert says i need to download dependencies (i know dpkg doesnā€™t resolve dependencies). Whereā€™s the ā€œenter to continueā€? How is this my fault??

      • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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        1 month ago

        How? Iā€™ve installed Debian with KDE

        Mistake number 1, Debian is not beginner friendly.

        downloaded the .deb from steam website

        Mistake number 2, this is windows mentality, if itā€™s not in the package manager itā€™s too advanced for you for the time being. Beginner friendly distros would have had steam in their package manager.

        learnt to install that using sudo dpkg -i steam_latest.deb

        You could have also double clicked the Deb file, but this is a bad way, dpkg does not resolve dependencies, so you would need to figure those out and install them by hand, which can be tedious at best.

        opened the app and iā€™ve been welcomed with a text inviting me to press enter to continue, pretty simple. The program downloaded stuff, steam is ready now. Not bad.

        You lucked out, your system had all of the requirements met.

        Repeated the exact same thing on Debian with xfce, that apparently doesnā€™t come with a software installer, nothing works. An alert says i need to download dependencies (i know dpkg doesnā€™t resolve dependencies). Whereā€™s the ā€œenter to continueā€?

        No such luck therez remember when I told you to use the package manager? This is why. Possibly missing something stupid like an i32 library, which you could manually install, but you shouldnā€™t, youā€™re making things hard for yourself for no reason other than wanting to avoid beginner friendly distros.

        How is this my fault??

        Itā€™s your fault because like Iā€™ve been saying since the beginning youā€™re trying to use Linux as if it were Windows and getting frustrated because it behaves differently. Trying to do this will be frustrating and you will become angry because nothing works like you expect, but you must understand that itā€™s not that things donā€™t work, itā€™s that they work differently.

        You might be thinking this is stupid, an installer should install everything it needs, right? Nope, thatā€™s a windows mentality, in Linux the main idea is that an installer only installs what itā€™s supposed to, any dependency should be system-wide. Why you might ask? Simple, imagine if every single GUI app had to include itā€™s own copy of the full GUI library it uses, your system would quickly become bloated, not only that but each program would open itā€™s own copy of the library using more and more memory, not to mention the interoperability problems between programs using different versions of the same library. In Linux the standard is for programs to use system libraries, itā€™s the convention, just like how on Windows it is to not (which has its own set of problems). This is why package managers are important, theyā€™re not just downloading an executable and running it, theyā€™re doing lots of stuff behind the curtains, all of it can be done manually, but like you found out itā€™s troublesome, so best is to avoid.

        • frengo@lemm.eeOP
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          1 month ago

          Mistake number 1, Debian is not beginner friendly.

          If i got a beginner friendly distro how will i learn how to use linux properly?

          if itā€™s not in the package manager itā€™s too advanced for you for the time being

          So if an app is not a package manager iā€™m fucked?

          You could have also double clicked the Deb file

          I tried, it did nothing, i went online to search for a solution.

          which you could manually install

          This is mental. This shouldnā€™t be a thing even for pros. I need 15 minutes to install an app? Sorry i wonā€™t go out this evening, i need to install an app and god knows what can happen.

          You might be thinking this is stupid

          Well, yes, of course. Also i read some contradictions in your post: the installer only installs what is supposed to, but it needs dependencies to actually make the app usable. But thatā€™s what package managers do, right? Different apps could use the same libraries but also different ones, so the system could become bloated nonetheless. I donā€™t see how is this beneficial for the user.

          • Nibodhika@lemmy.world
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            1 month ago

            If i got a beginner friendly distro how will i learn how to use linux properly?

            Thatā€™s like asking how will you learn to swim if you start in a pool where you can reach the bottom. First of all under the hood Ubuntu and Gentoo are 99% the same, the main differences are philosophical, almost everything you learn for Ubuntu will carry over to any other distro. But if you try jumping straight into the deep end you will be overwhelmed. I mentioned Gentoo because you usually compile your own kernel when using it, how can you possibly learn Linux without compiling your own kernel!? But the majority of people who know Linux nowadays have never done so, and you shouldnā€™t need to either. The same applies to all the thousand paper cuts youā€™re inflicting to yourself for choosing a distro whose philosophy doesnā€™t include being beginner friendly.

            So if an app is not a package manager iā€™m fucked?

            For the time being, yes. But hereā€™s the thing, if everything else is working, figuring out how to install a package manually is simple, but if youā€™re struggling with 100 other things you will be overwhelmed by it. Tell me, when was the last time you downloaded an .APK from a random site on the internet to install something on your phone? Itā€™s the same thing.

            I tried, it did nothing, i went online to search for a solution.

            Weird, that used to work last I used Debian based with KDE.

            This is mental. This shouldnā€™t be a thing even for pros. I need 15 minutes to install an app? Sorry i wonā€™t go out this evening, i need to install an app and god knows what can happen.

            Nope, I could install that in 1 min, because I know what Iā€™m doing, so I know how to install dependencies. But you donā€™t, so you shouldnā€™t try to install stuff manually. For starters I would have added a PPA instead of manually installing a .deb, that way the package would get updated and apt would install the dependencies automatically, if that wasnā€™t an option or I was feeling lazy I would have just installed using snap/flatpacks, or if I had to install using a .deb, I would just use apt to do it to autoresolve dependencies. The fact that half of what I said there sounds like gibberish is the reason why you shouldnā€™t do it. Itā€™s equivalent of someone who canā€™t even use Android properly asking you how to install an APK not on the play store, first learn the basics, then you can do complex stuff.

            Well, yes, of course. Also i read some contradictions in your post:

            No contradictions, letā€™s go over one by one

            the installer only installs what is supposed to, but it needs dependencies to actually make the app usable.

            Yes, but each dependency is its own package, so when you install one package you might be installing several. But if you try to install one package manually (via dpkg) you donā€™t get the packages it depends on (because dpkg is a glorified unzip, it doesnā€™t know how to fetch dependencies).

            But thatā€™s what package managers do, right?

            Exactly, unlike dpkg, apt does know how to install the dependencies, so it would do it automatically.

            Different apps could use the same libraries but also different ones, so the system could become bloated nonetheless.

            Yes, but youā€™re missing the point, a single library doesnā€™t weight that much, a dozen copies of that same library do. You installed KDE, so you probably had these apps (among others):

            • Dolphin
            • Okular
            • Kwin
            • Konsole
            • Ark
            • Kate
            • Etcā€¦

            The KDE library is 150/200MB, so on Windows each of those application on itā€™s own weights at least 200MB, so probably youā€™re looking at 2GB for 10 apps that use the KDE library. On Linux they weight very small amount, because all of them use the same KDE library which is installed system-wide. Maybe some of those also use other libraries, but if you install anything else that uses that same library the library wonā€™t be duplicated the same way it is on Windows, where each installer is self-contained and brings all of the libraries it needs to work.

            I donā€™t see how is this beneficial for the user.

            There are two main advantages:

            • Smaller footprint for the system. Like I shown installing all those packages on Windows would be a few GB, but on Linux itā€™s probably less than 1. Expand that to an entire system and youā€™ll see how you can have a full Linux system filled with packages occupying less than Windows with some programs installed
            • System-wide updates. Imagine a vulnerability was discovered in SSL, on Windows you would have to manually figure out which programs use SSL, figure out if the latest version of it uses an SSL version that fixes that vulnerability, update them to that version, rince and repeat for all programs installed. Whereas on Linux a system update fixes everything. Same thing for new features or bug fixes.

            And the disadvantages are:

            • Complicated to install a package (because you need to resolve the dependencies). Which is not an issue if you use a package manager.
            • Stuff might break if different programs depend on different versions of the same library. Again, not an issue because the package manager ensures everything is up to date so you get the latest for all apps and libraries which work together, but the moment you install something manually you need to manage this manually for that package.

            So overall it has 2 huge benefits and no downsides as long as you use the package manager.

            • frengo@lemm.eeOP
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              1 month ago

              Weird, that used to work last I used Debian based with KDE

              It was Debian with xfce.

              For the time being, yes

              Wasnā€™t this the OS of freedom? Hmmm

              But you donā€™t, so you shouldnā€™t try to install stuff manually

              I tried to install ISO image writer on Ubuntu, on my laptop. Went straight to the package manager, no terminal bullshit, downloaded it, open button is greyed out. Fantastic. Stable version btw. Solved by uninstalling and installing another version available on the manager. Linux is literally problems after problems after problems.

              install an APK

              Like, download the APK, enable Unknown sources, tap on the icon? I donā€™t use android since 2017 but iā€™m pretty sure is the same, isnā€™t it? Not an happy comparison.

              When i want to uninstall and app and all the dependencies connected to it (autoremove, right?) is Linux able to tell if some of those dependencies are necessary for other apps and ā€œwhitelistā€ them?