I know perfectly what it is I’m upset about; nothing.

I attempted to engage in a basic discussion on a public forum. I’m sorry if that offended you somehow, but I also don’t understand why you’re here in that case.

I never took anything as an attack.

You’re injecting emotion and intent into my statements. That’s not healthy or productive.

So I’ll summarize it all one last time; I personally believe that what system you claim to be running should be primarily centered around the ruleset and not the setting. We disagree on that matter and that’s okay. But during that discussion you clarified your intent when making the original statement, and I stepped back to address that as well; I consider your response, both the original one and this one right here, to be unproductive and dismissive when it comes to the discussion of Shadowrun’s ruleset.

This is on the level of “does that hurt? Then don’t do that” advice from doctors. Yes, it’s correct, but in the context of the discussion it misses the point. This is a post about Shadowrun and it’s mechanics, so I am voicing my opinion on Shadowrun’s mechanics. I know I can just not play with Shadowrun rules. I don’t play with Shadowrun rules daily. But if that was a valid response to my opinion there wouldn’t be any reason to discuss the rules of Shadowrun ever. You either like it or you play something else.

And yes, “like it or play something else” is a valid response to an opinion, but for people out there who haven’t played Shadowrun, it’s still worth voicing why something is disliked so that they can form their opinion without having to drop time and effort getting a session together just to give the rules a test-drive.

So coming to a discussion about the quality of the rules of a system and the opinions people have on said rules and saying “well just don’t use the rules then” is dismissive and pointless. It almost reads as shutting down the opinions of others, even.

Let me clarify; there’s nothing wrong with mixing and matching settings and rulesets. But I wouldn’t say I’m running Shadowrun if I’m just running a D&D5e ruleset in a Shadowrun setting.

I think at this point we have to agree to disagree, because we clearly have different ways of looking at this. I’m of the opinion that communicating the ruleset you’re running is important because if I go to a D&D5e game with a PF3e character, nobody is going to enjoy that. Specifying the setting is important too, but the rules aren’t an unimportant thing you don’t need to specify.

Regardless, when I say “Shadowrun is not an entry-level TTRPG”, I am referring to the ruleset and not the setting. There is nothing wrong with the setting. I guess you’d parse it better if I said that the Shadowrun ruleset isn’t an entry-level ruleset?

I think at this point I need to ask you to take a step back and remember where this conversation started.

I opened by saying that Shadowrun is not an entry-level system because the rules are hard to understand. What it seems you did was take me saying “Shadowrun is not an entry-level TTRPG” and append “setting” to that, which is ironic given this post.

I never meant to imply that the setting was hard to understand. It’s the rules that were the problem, and I apologize if that wasn’t clear enough. But from my perspective, I said “The rules are hard for a new player to understand” and - again, from my perspective - your response was more or less “The rules are fine if you change all the rules”. So you can imagine why I was blunt in my responses. This whole thing has been in the context of the rules system from the start, so yes, I am focused on the rules at the moment.

But I do stand by the fact that Shadowrun’s setting with different rules is not “running Shadowrun” the same way running a D&D5e ruleset in a modern setting is still “Running 5e”. It’s the rules that matter in the context of statements like these, not the setting. You don’t say “I’m running Forgotten Realms” You say “I’m running D&D.” Sure, sometimes you specify modules but those modules are known to exist in a specific system so saying “I’m running Rime of the Frostmaiden 5e” is redundant. What you’re doing is “Running [system] with Shadowrun’s setting” or perhaps “Running Shadowrun’s setting with another system.” The distinction is still important, and anyone who reads “I’m running Shadowrun but I changed all the rules” will likely interpret that in their heads to mean “Shadowrun['s setting] with different rules” anyway.

Or TL:DR; you “Run” rulesets, and your campaign takes place in a setting.

If you use an older edition of Shadowrun, you’re running an older edition of Shadowrun, like how people say they run PF2e. Or you saying you’d run Shadowrun Anarchy. But you wouldn’t say you’re running Shadowrun at a LFG forum and expect nobody to ask or care what edition.

House rules are house rules. They’re expected, but usually minor in the scope of the system.

Both are a far cry from “replacing the mechanics entirely”. There’s only so much you can replace or scrap before you cross a line of it not being the same system anymore, and “replacing the mechanics entirely” definitely crosses that line. It’s like when you see someone say “Yeah I’m running D&D5e but I replaced the combat rules and added Draw Steel’s negotiation system and reworked all the proficiencies and changed to Vancian spellcasting”. At that point, you’re basically playing your own system where the stats and classes are inspired by D&D5e, but nobody would call that “D&D5e but with house rules/homebrew”. There’s more stuff that isn’t D&D5e than that is.

This is exactly the kind of thing that people get annoyed at D&D people about, just sort of in reverse; D&D people run different settings with a 5e ruleset and call it a “new system”. You’re running a system’s setting with a different system and calling it “the same system”. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with pasting Shadowrun’s setting onto a new system, but if I run a campaign in Shadowrun’s world but I replace the mechanics entirely with D&D5e, I’m not running Shadowrun. I’m running D&D5e.

If you “run Shadowrun” by “replacing the rules entirely” you aren’t running Shadowrun. You’re running a different system with Shadowrun’s setting.

Oh yeah, the setting is fine, but the rules of the RPG itself are tough to get into.

Ehh… it’s definitely not an entry-level TTRPG. I’ve tried playing it once and bounced hard, though it was partially the fault of the GM…

It’s very crunchy, and complicated, and the rules aren’t laid out very well. Maybe now that I’m more experienced with TTRPGs in general I might have more fun with it. I remember doing some silly stuff that was a lot of fun, it was just bogged down by mistakes and misunderstandings and rules, and the way things are set up can often divide the party in a way that isn’t fun (the net, for example. Anyone not net-capable basically gets a lunch break whenever you’re doing anything in the net).

I’ve only heard one statement about the Tom Cruise reboot; “The most interesting thing about that movie was the trailer they mistakenly released without any audio”

So… not glowing reviews.

What do you think they have Igor for?

Fool of a Tiefling!

that assumes that all discussion is made via text chat and not voice chat. Any item usage that goes un-typed is lost.

Why would you use ChatGPT to emulate a word processor? You get all the functionality you need without ever hitting enter.

Just make sure to watch out for the potted petunias that follow.