Developer of ActivityPub-based micro-blogging and content subscription platform Mitra. Working on Fediverse standards: https://codeberg.org/silverpill/feps
@deadsuperhero @fediverse @quillmatiq Protocols described in these FEPs are currency-agnostic and developers can build actual platforms and solutions on them (as I did). This is the only ongoing effort to bring a payment layer to the Fediverse - there are no alternative proposals. FEP-8c3f was withdrawn in favor of FEP-0ea0.
Okay, you didn’t know about it. But now you do and it would be nice to include at least some of that information in the article.
@deadsuperhero @fediverse You cite an abandoned project and withdrawn WebMonetization FEP and then say “most efforts have not advanced beyond the planning stages”. This statement is misleading because those planning stages are far behind us. Mitra had subscriptions since 2022 and there are other projects that provide monetization options, like PeerTube Lightning plugin and PeerTube Premium Users plugin. FEP-0ea0 and FEP-0837 were published and implemented. Your co-author @quillmatiq should be well aware of these developments because we talked about it
Why did’t you mention Mitra, the open source and fully decentralized Fediverse service that also offers paid subscriptions, and which has been around for several years?
@maegul @fediverse Some ActivityPub implementations already work as social media browsers. For example, my server can interact with microblogs, but also forums, blogs, events etc. The more activity / object types are supported, the closer software is to a browser.
@DisgracedDoctor @monero @monerobull I think this is because monero today is a boring tool that just works. The community calmed down and many activists/shills moved to greener pastures. This is probably a good thing
If you want more activity in fediverse, you can try to get micro-blogging sector going. There are many people who are interested in monero but no organization. I’ve seen a couple of accounts run by projects which mostly cross-post from twitter and do not engage with audience. No follow lists. We had a xmrposter Pleroma instance, but it was shut down.
@tusker @monero Chain growth is a real problem that is often dismissed because storage prices are falling. This makes sense when you’re small and there is not much activity, but that could change in the future.
However, I don’t think you can simply drop old blocks without burning someone’s savings? One probably should look into what Ethereum people are doing with their state expiry proposals.
@rafael_xmr @monero Support for portable objects can be added to existing Fediverse applications, the idea is relatively simple. However, implementing it might still require significant effort because of the fundamental shift from “one account -> one server” to “one account -> multiple servers”. I’ve started to work on this in Mitra, but we’re still several months away (at the very least) from anything usable.
Once this idea is proven to work, I expect rational developers to adopt it, because the benefits of data portability seem to vastly outweigh its downsides.
@monero @rafael_xmr I know how Nostr works, I just don’t think it is better. However, if it still be around in a year or two, I might consider using Nostr relays for storing AP data. Why not, if this infrastructure already exists
@rafael_xmr @monero With AP you can have multiple admins too. Server-bound accounts is not an inherent limitation of a protocol, it just happened that popular servers like Mastodon and Lemmy are designed this way.
If you’re interested in technical details, here’s what I’m working on: https://codeberg.org/fediverse/fep/src/branch/main/fep/ef61/fep-ef61.md
@mister_monster @monero Yes, this is me. I’m choosing fediverse for several reasons 1) almost everyone I care about is here 2) I think it’s actually very important to be in contact with people who maintain infrastructure (admins) 3) ActivityPub is an open protocol which is not controlled by anyone 4) better protocol design overall
Many existing implementations suffer from the lack of data portability but I figured out how to fix that.
@treetrnk @monero I recommend building on ActivityPub instead.
You’ll be able to connect to monero.town and to everything else in Fediverse. See https://codeberg.org/grindhold/flohmarkt for example. It is a bit unfinished but people are already using it. If you’re python dev you can even fork it.
@Eggroley I have no time for shitcoin research. If there are other CHIP sites, it shouldn’t be difficult for you to present them.
>Decision making being done by multiple unaffiliated people from multiple different teams on different node software and, CHIPs taking multiple years and iterations to achieve consensus seems to fit the definition of decentralized governance pretty well.
If 10 guys talking on a forum and deciding what’s best for all users of a network counts as “decentralized”, then yeah, maybe it is.
@Eggroley We were talking about CHIPs at https://bch.info/en/chips. There’s a website and a github repo, likely controlled by the same person. Looks very official to me, and very centralized. More generally, there’s no such thing as “decentralized governance”. You can have anarchy / free market, or you can have a centralized decision making process, but not both.
@japananon @monero I talked with some devs and learned about plans to add GUI for mutlisig to Feather wallet. But it is not clear when this will happen because Monero multisig still has experimental status (its security is not proven).
I could try to build an alternative wallet app, but there’s a risk that Feather will add it first and my effort would be wasted.
Also, this just popped up in my feed: https://monero.im/post/3925
@japananon @monero I could build one, sounds like an interesting project.
There was an old system based on BitMessage, but it is unusable and unmaintainted: https://www.getmonero.org/resources/user-guides/multisig-messaging-system.html.
Someone is trying to build I2P-based version with an integrated marketplace: https://github.com/creating2morrow/neveko. It doesn’t look very usable either, and developer is trying to do everything at once, which is usually a bad idea.
I would make it as a standalone tool that can work on clearnet and can connect to other software
@japananon @monero Apparently it was never attempted. What is so great about Nunchuk, integrated chat?
Given that monero-wallet-rpc provides CLI interface, GUI shouldn’t be difficult to build. I think it can be even built by integrating multisig into an existing chat or social application.
@5dh @fediverse Financial incentive is not the only possible cause. If project leaders stop listening to their users for some other reason, you’ll get the same result.
And there is another, more subtle problem: protocol bloat. Fediverse services are getting more and more complicated, and the cost of creating a new platform is constantly increasing. If this problem is not addressed, at some point Fediverse will start looking like a web browser market, where new players can’t compete due to an immense implementation complexity.