Problem is - media posts these images of trans women looking like women. And honestly - I have no issues with genuine trans using it.
But what this trans bathrooms opens up - is a very bad legal loophole.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I’m a woman. There cannot be a proof - right? I don’t have to be dressed like one, I can just be dressed like a man, I can be a super dirty trucker man who “believes being a woman”.
There have been gender neutral bathrooms in multiple US states for years now. Find me one single example of what you’re describing occurring. This fear you have is founded in nothing but ignorance, xenophobia, and stupidity. It’s literally the point of this post. You’re no different than the white women in the 50s worrying about black people getting access to their bathrooms and victimizing them somehow.
So what gets left out of these arguments a lot or misunderstood about being trans is not that this is a ‘belief’ based system. We are very individually aware of what we look like to other people and how we are being “clocked” by others. Take me, I am trans masculine but bodywise I have opted not to transition because of specific reasons. I don’t automatically feel comfortable using the gent’s washroom.
All of us are looking to find the path of least resistance in this binary that wasn’t designed for us. Trans women I know who don’t seemlessly pass often get stares regardless of what bathroom they use but while women might be horrible, going to the mens means that transphobes can follow you to a secondary location to assault you. If there’s an individual third non gendered option that’s often what we use because for me, I feel weird about being in women’s spaces even if they don’t hassle me and my clockable trans grildfriends don’t have to deal with the anxiety of other people staring.
If I did go on hrt though it would be a different story. I, like all of us, want to use the option that makes everyone around me the most comfortable and the whole thing pass by without any incident.
Under a system that allows trans people to make the call to use what allows us to make the call about what is safest and the least path of social resistance you really don’t find trans people who look like big scruffy men entering women’s washrooms and claiming to be a women because that isn’t a path of least resistance move. It’s not that we “believe” we are our preferred gender and just automatically switch to everything right away. We are very aware that we do not fit in but why we’re doing what we are doing is that our brain looks at our natal sex characteristics as abhorrent which means visually speaking we do dress so that other people can pick up on our deal and don’t keep reminding us in language.
Non-binary folk are kind of the standouts but generally speaking we make the exact same sort of social risk assessments and do our business in the bathroom that other people tend to clock our gender as, not nessisarily the one we feel closest aligned with.
So really under a situation where bathrooms are a free for all a fully masculine looking and coding person wandering into a women’s room not making any attempt to pass IS still a red flag worthy of heightened caution… But if you are in a place where trans men are forced to use a women’s room then more than likely that’s a person following the law and in following that law is risking getting the security or police called in because they had to pee and then spending the next hour being treated like a sex offender while they have their documents checked all because they weren’t permitted to make the bathroom choice of social least resistance for themselves.
Yeah back in the day (idk if it still is I’m just really post transition) switching bathrooms was a right of passing (heh). It was done when you started getting stares in the old bathroom. I last used a men’s room back in college when I was at a urinal (it was late and I was in a hurry) and a guy came in, saw me, walked out, then came back in, clearly having had to check the sign on the door. It’s been many years since, I’m nearing 10 years on hormones and 4 post bottom surgery and I look somewhere between androgynous and female. I get misgendered sometimes but I’ve had coworkers comment on my menses. And the thing is, I’ve met cis women who look more trans than I do.
I dunno if it is much a right of passage as it used to be. Where I am we’ve had bathroom freedom for a long while now and since we have a larger than usual trans population (Vancouver BC) folk transition bathroom use a little earlier than double take type passing but like anybody who crosses into the other side at minimum definitely looks properly trans. Abroad I have been bodily chased out of bathrooms by women when I was younger and passed for more androgynous even though I am an AFAB who never went on T. I ended up using the gents for awhile just because it meant nobody tried to clock me in the head with a purse but like… it sucked worrying that someone would clock me the other direction while I was waiting for a stall. Never personally happened so I never figured out how that experience shakes out but I was definitely trying to lay low.
Even with it being a city that puts “trans people welcome” over the bathrooms us enbies / non physically transitioned folk tend to have a pretty brutal self assessment of how we clock before we pick which restroom to take. It’s really sucky how people take the whole “We don’t owe you presentation” quote to infer like the way we personally choose to present doesn’t actually factor into how we make choices or navigate the world… Like we still don’t want to make people uncomfortable! Half of us enbies are so socially anxious that causing social friction gives us the bloody horrors and we accommodate other people at our own expense more often than not.
Like really… It boggles the mind how so many straights seem to think we operate as some kind of all powerful gender authoritarians who can force people to unquestioningly not even glance at us sideways or else we trot them to the censorship guillotine!
Once again, a whole ass group of people are being punished for what straight cisgendered men might do.
No one ever gave a shit about men raping women in bathrooms before it became a “Trans” issue.
You want to stop bathroom rapes? Start talking to your male friends about the way they objectify women. Start standing up against “locker room” talk. Call out other men for acting in sexist and predatory ways.
But you won’t, because you are a coward. It’s just so much easier to talk down to Trans people and make up silly arguments than to stand up against your own people.
What about transmen that look like big truckers? Following the new rules of Congress they would have to use the women’s restrooms and they look like you described.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I’m a woman
I have news for you, you can just walk into a women’s bathroom now if you feel like it.
You never accidentally went into a women’s restroom while you were drunk or just had to pee so bad you were worried you’d piss your pants? I have, nobody was in there so I didn’t notice until afterwards when I saw no urinals.
This is such a non issue. Also let’s take your example and flip it - say you’re a trans dude, now you’re a man going into the women’s restroom because of this bullshit. Like a fully bearded jacked guy being forced to use the women’s restroom, that’s what this is doing.
And as a woman (admittedly a trans woman, but I bet my cis friends feel the same) we’d rather that than slip on piss. Shit happens, but it’s best to make sure it happens in there
Have you seen any bathrooms being guarded by armed security? What makes you think the kind of person who would do something like that for nefarious purposes would just suddenly decide its too risky because some suits said it was a big nono.
It’s literally the same energy as “if we made rape illegal nobody would rape anymore!” Except worse because it actively harms innocent people
To what end? To pee? Who cares? Go ahead. When the line’s too long at one, people regularly duck into the free restroom in an emergency anyway. If you have to go, just go.
If someone goes into a public restroom with the intention of harming someone inside, it doesn’t matter what gender any of them are, or what they look like, or which bathroom it is. None of that matters. Don’t go into a bathroom with the intention of harming someone. That’s wrong. The end.
I didn’t down vote you and respect the honest reply.
I am from Europe and here, I am not even aware of any toilet “laws”, except: If they offer seats and Tables, they have to provide a toilet.
You can find all the toilet “configurations” within the limits of one city. Simply because the Disabled/Pregnant Bathrooms are now “Diverse/Neutral” too. And small restaurants usually only have one toilet. Some clubs have gender neutral bathrooms which basically eradicated the lines for the women (inside it’s very respectful, I mean guys like you/me are there too, some with girlfriend… a perv/voyeur would not have a good time there).
From my perspective it’s a complete non issue, which feels like a waste of thought when compared to my daily challenges.
Problem is - media posts these images of trans women looking like women. And honestly - I have no issues with genuine trans using it.
But what this trans bathrooms opens up - is a very bad legal loophole.
Im being a huge guy - can go to the women bathroom if I say I believe I’m a woman. There cannot be a proof - right? I don’t have to be dressed like one, I can just be dressed like a man, I can be a super dirty trucker man who “believes being a woman”.
People will exploit this.
There have been gender neutral bathrooms in multiple US states for years now. Find me one single example of what you’re describing occurring. This fear you have is founded in nothing but ignorance, xenophobia, and stupidity. It’s literally the point of this post. You’re no different than the white women in the 50s worrying about black people getting access to their bathrooms and victimizing them somehow.
The vast majority of pooping and being is done in gender neutral bathrooms. I’ve never been in a house that had gendered bathrooms.
OK
Do you? Who is currently stopping you?
Why would someone who wants to batter, rape or abuse another person be stopped by an unlocked door with a little cartoon sign on it?
Who stopping?
If I try that now - I’ll get beat up if anyone sees me . Most likely cops called. Most likely immediate sex offender.
But if it’s a trans bathrooms - the people that try to beat me up will be in the wrong and arrested for being transphobic.
I’m so glad no trans person has ever been beat up because they were forced to use their birth-gender bathroom
That’s total bullshit and you know it.
Just a reminder: this shit is being peddled by the same people who call upon cis men to enter women’s bathroom to “protect them from predators”.
A predator doesn’t need to identify as anything to walk into a bathroom. They just need to open the door and walk in.
AND WHY ARE WE STILL TALKING ABOUT THIS? WHAT’S NEXT? MORE LITTER BOX DRAMA?
Hi, trans person here.
So what gets left out of these arguments a lot or misunderstood about being trans is not that this is a ‘belief’ based system. We are very individually aware of what we look like to other people and how we are being “clocked” by others. Take me, I am trans masculine but bodywise I have opted not to transition because of specific reasons. I don’t automatically feel comfortable using the gent’s washroom.
All of us are looking to find the path of least resistance in this binary that wasn’t designed for us. Trans women I know who don’t seemlessly pass often get stares regardless of what bathroom they use but while women might be horrible, going to the mens means that transphobes can follow you to a secondary location to assault you. If there’s an individual third non gendered option that’s often what we use because for me, I feel weird about being in women’s spaces even if they don’t hassle me and my clockable trans grildfriends don’t have to deal with the anxiety of other people staring.
If I did go on hrt though it would be a different story. I, like all of us, want to use the option that makes everyone around me the most comfortable and the whole thing pass by without any incident.
Under a system that allows trans people to make the call to use what allows us to make the call about what is safest and the least path of social resistance you really don’t find trans people who look like big scruffy men entering women’s washrooms and claiming to be a women because that isn’t a path of least resistance move. It’s not that we “believe” we are our preferred gender and just automatically switch to everything right away. We are very aware that we do not fit in but why we’re doing what we are doing is that our brain looks at our natal sex characteristics as abhorrent which means visually speaking we do dress so that other people can pick up on our deal and don’t keep reminding us in language.
Non-binary folk are kind of the standouts but generally speaking we make the exact same sort of social risk assessments and do our business in the bathroom that other people tend to clock our gender as, not nessisarily the one we feel closest aligned with.
So really under a situation where bathrooms are a free for all a fully masculine looking and coding person wandering into a women’s room not making any attempt to pass IS still a red flag worthy of heightened caution… But if you are in a place where trans men are forced to use a women’s room then more than likely that’s a person following the law and in following that law is risking getting the security or police called in because they had to pee and then spending the next hour being treated like a sex offender while they have their documents checked all because they weren’t permitted to make the bathroom choice of social least resistance for themselves.
Yeah back in the day (idk if it still is I’m just really post transition) switching bathrooms was a right of passing (heh). It was done when you started getting stares in the old bathroom. I last used a men’s room back in college when I was at a urinal (it was late and I was in a hurry) and a guy came in, saw me, walked out, then came back in, clearly having had to check the sign on the door. It’s been many years since, I’m nearing 10 years on hormones and 4 post bottom surgery and I look somewhere between androgynous and female. I get misgendered sometimes but I’ve had coworkers comment on my menses. And the thing is, I’ve met cis women who look more trans than I do.
I dunno if it is much a right of passage as it used to be. Where I am we’ve had bathroom freedom for a long while now and since we have a larger than usual trans population (Vancouver BC) folk transition bathroom use a little earlier than double take type passing but like anybody who crosses into the other side at minimum definitely looks properly trans. Abroad I have been bodily chased out of bathrooms by women when I was younger and passed for more androgynous even though I am an AFAB who never went on T. I ended up using the gents for awhile just because it meant nobody tried to clock me in the head with a purse but like… it sucked worrying that someone would clock me the other direction while I was waiting for a stall. Never personally happened so I never figured out how that experience shakes out but I was definitely trying to lay low.
Even with it being a city that puts “trans people welcome” over the bathrooms us enbies / non physically transitioned folk tend to have a pretty brutal self assessment of how we clock before we pick which restroom to take. It’s really sucky how people take the whole “We don’t owe you presentation” quote to infer like the way we personally choose to present doesn’t actually factor into how we make choices or navigate the world… Like we still don’t want to make people uncomfortable! Half of us enbies are so socially anxious that causing social friction gives us the bloody horrors and we accommodate other people at our own expense more often than not.
Like really… It boggles the mind how so many straights seem to think we operate as some kind of all powerful gender authoritarians who can force people to unquestioningly not even glance at us sideways or else we trot them to the censorship guillotine!
Once again, a whole ass group of people are being punished for what straight cisgendered men might do.
No one ever gave a shit about men raping women in bathrooms before it became a “Trans” issue.
You want to stop bathroom rapes? Start talking to your male friends about the way they objectify women. Start standing up against “locker room” talk. Call out other men for acting in sexist and predatory ways.
But you won’t, because you are a coward. It’s just so much easier to talk down to Trans people and make up silly arguments than to stand up against your own people.
What about transmen that look like big truckers? Following the new rules of Congress they would have to use the women’s restrooms and they look like you described.
I have news for you, you can just walk into a women’s bathroom now if you feel like it.
You never accidentally went into a women’s restroom while you were drunk or just had to pee so bad you were worried you’d piss your pants? I have, nobody was in there so I didn’t notice until afterwards when I saw no urinals.
This is such a non issue. Also let’s take your example and flip it - say you’re a trans dude, now you’re a man going into the women’s restroom because of this bullshit. Like a fully bearded jacked guy being forced to use the women’s restroom, that’s what this is doing.
And as a woman (admittedly a trans woman, but I bet my cis friends feel the same) we’d rather that than slip on piss. Shit happens, but it’s best to make sure it happens in there
Have you seen any bathrooms being guarded by armed security? What makes you think the kind of person who would do something like that for nefarious purposes would just suddenly decide its too risky because some suits said it was a big nono.
It’s literally the same energy as “if we made rape illegal nobody would rape anymore!” Except worse because it actively harms innocent people
To what end? To pee? Who cares? Go ahead. When the line’s too long at one, people regularly duck into the free restroom in an emergency anyway. If you have to go, just go.
If someone goes into a public restroom with the intention of harming someone inside, it doesn’t matter what gender any of them are, or what they look like, or which bathroom it is. None of that matters. Don’t go into a bathroom with the intention of harming someone. That’s wrong. The end.
I didn’t down vote you and respect the honest reply.
I am from Europe and here, I am not even aware of any toilet “laws”, except: If they offer seats and Tables, they have to provide a toilet.
You can find all the toilet “configurations” within the limits of one city. Simply because the Disabled/Pregnant Bathrooms are now “Diverse/Neutral” too. And small restaurants usually only have one toilet. Some clubs have gender neutral bathrooms which basically eradicated the lines for the women (inside it’s very respectful, I mean guys like you/me are there too, some with girlfriend… a perv/voyeur would not have a good time there).
From my perspective it’s a complete non issue, which feels like a waste of thought when compared to my daily challenges.
Edit: Lots of typos…
Yes you can!