I ran lots of containers on a Pi 4 but recently purchased two cheap Chinese mini PC’s with 16GB RAM and an SSD. They’re so much faster and only a bit dearer than a Pi. I run Proxmox on both.
Absolutely nothing wrong with the Pi though. The Pi 4 lives on with a USB drive attached. I have NFS configured on it to backup my Proxmox VMs to it. It also hosts all the media for Jellyfin.
If you think about it, the kubernetes nodes often are only raspberry pis specwise. 2-4 cores, 8-16gb of ram
I have been in for a couple months now, Proxmox cluster with two machines.
- Self built pc that was my daily driver for a while, rtx 3080ti 32gb ram, ryzen 7 3700x, runs the heavy stuff like a Mac VM, LLM stuff, game servers
- Rando open box mini pc I picked up on a whim from Bestbuy, Intel 300 (didn’t even know these existed…) with igpu, 32gb of ram, hosts my dhcp/dns main traefik instance and all the light services like dozzle and such.
Works out nicely as I crash the first one too often and the DHCP going down was unacceptable, wish I got a slightly better cpu for the minipc but meh, maybe I can upgrade it later.
To be fair, also love the mini pc’s and having a larger NAS. For me the PoE capabilities of the Pi’s are definitely the reason I use them
The HAT-ability of RPi makes them enough for me. You can add sata ports, PCIe, and more with a simple HAT.
any recommendations on hats for sata?
Been running one from Radxa for a while. Just make sure to check the power requirements of your drives.
a pie is neat. thats it. does it have enough ram for hosting & running all your containers? no.
I think any mini-pc/old laptop is better, and probably cheaper than a raspberry pi nowadays
I would have disagreed with you when Pis were like $50 and chaining 3 Pis together with a hard drive was a fun project to do self hosting.
Now to get to the beefiest raspberry pi, it’s $120. And in the range, yeah, for price and reliability, use a mini-pc/laptop.
I think the pi zero might have a place, don’t have one but at least it is actually cheap. Used an old laptop before, now running stuff on my PC which I feel was a bit of a mistake in a way but it started as one process and more appeared over time.
At some point would like to move it into a VM tbh, then I could copy the VM to a mini PC at a later date. Or easily copy it when reinstalling the OS on my main PC. VM for convenience and separating it from my general PC usage.
Pi zero 2 runs my home automation smoothly and few of it’s sisters are in a desk drawer in case of equipment failure. It has quite enough oomph to run Home Assistant with zigbee hat.
Yeah honestly i can’t get anything done with a raspberry. Maybe i host too many services ?
Nah, they are underpowered for their current price. When you could get your hand on a raspberry pi 3 for 35€ 10 years ago it was a bargain. But now it’s not the case.
Honestly Raspberry Pis are pretty underpowered as hosts for more than a handful of super basic services, and given they consume 20-30w at minimum you’re easily getting into used office desktop territory where you can get a ton more performance right out of the gate.
The real value in the raspberry pi is in the GPIO and the cohesive ecosystem of accessories to plug into said GPIO. You can do so many cool automations and controls using just an RPi (especially if combined with something that can’t be accomplished more cheaply and easily with an ESP32) but as a server host they’re pretty crap in comparison to a decade old business PC off of eBay
I’ve got 3x RPi 4/5 with external drives and other USB running ~10 containers at 4-6W each. How did you make them draw 20W?
I’ve found that a pi is good enough, computationally, but not reliability wise.
A lot of things like advanced light control goes through my host, so any lockups or crashes are bad. My pi held up for about 18 months before it began to play up. I’ve found a small NUC system has higher reliability for the same price and power usage.
Kubernetes is designed to improve reliability
That doesn’t help against hardware thermal runaway. The pi would overheat its own ram chips and hard lock up. A simple power cycle fixed it.
Yes, you can optimize a lot. Especially with Linux. I did the same and even started to replace program that did too much, bloated, with my own programs. To speed up the development I did it with AI and Cursor.
This struggle usually takes place over a weekend.
This guy selfhosts
So close. Started on raspberry pi. Went for a cluster with dpckrt swarm. Finished with a nas and a 10years old game computer as a mediacenter. (That the electricity bill whoch made me stop the cluster)
I need a kubernetes cluster with high availability, load balancing and horizontal pod autoscaling, because that is something I want to learn. I don’t care that it’s just for wife’s home-made dog collars webshop.
Yeah that’s basically it for me. I have a collection of dev boards, old hardware and stuff other people were tossing out set up for a variety of purposes (Kubernetes clusters, two build farms, network boot, etc.). None of it is because I feel I “need” any of that for self hosting. In practice two old desktops with a bunch of drives would be perfectly capable of providing everything I need including redundancy. I have all that stuff because I’m learning and experimenting.
This is the way
You can do it on a handful of Raspberry Pis rather than one, then.
Imagine, if you will, a Beowulf cluster of Raspberry Pis!
A man of culture, I see!
I don’t get this; a Pi isn’t even in the same conversation as an old rackmount server you can get for free. You couldn’t stuff half the compute, ram and storage into a Pi or a dozen Pis for 10X the cost of grabbing something off eBay for a hundred bucks.
That’s if the Rpi Foundation is deigning to let us peasants even buy them these days.
I have an old rackmount server I got for free. Dual Xeon X5650s, 192GB of RAM, four 8TB HDDs, and a pair of 250GB SSDs. I can only use it in the basement because it’s too loud to run anywhere else, but even then, it’s currently off because it trips its circuit breaker under heavy load.
A power strip full of Pis in a k3s cluster doesn’t do that. I used a 2GB model 4 for the control plane and 3Bs as the workers.
Why do you think you got it for free ;)
Eh, it was good when I got it. Who am I to turn down a free dual socket server though? :)
Useful in winter I suppose!
But I have a heat pump that is more efficient
If it trips circuit breakers it’s using a terrifying amount of power. Honestly with energy prices I am starting to think old stuff is actually becoming a bad value in some cases.
The problem is that server will probably use more electricity, it’ll be clunky to store, and it’s going to be loud as fuck.
I need
It’s just fun to play with, there is no “need”.
Yeah, I enjoyed my time with k3s setup at home as well, but right now I don’t really want nor need that 😄
The only problem I’ve had with Raspberry Pi is that some apps want to write a lot of stuff to “disk”, and the default “disk” on a Pi is a MicroSD card which dies if you keep writing things to it. Sure, you can always plug something into a USB slot, but that adds a bit of friction to the whole process.
Oh, also, I wish it were easy to power a whole bunch of Pi units. Each one needing its own wall wart is a bit annoying, and I’ve had iffy results using weaker, less steady power supplies with multiple ports intended for things like phones.
I ended up just buying an industrial mSD card. Has yet to fail.
I really recommend a HAT with SSD, totally worth the investment.
Yeah, but then you have to get a kind of case that can handle a Pi plus that hat. It’s a good idea, it’s just a bit more fiddly than just the typical booting from the SD card and doing everything that way.
Wouldn’t an SSD run into problems down the line with too many Writes?
The amount of writes required to kill an SSD aren’t going to be seen in the real world on a timescale of less than 10 years unless you’re really doing something wild that you shouldn’t be.
An SD card might fail after it’s full capacity being written a handful of times, SSDs can survive that several hundred times over. Seriously look up the terrabytes written specs for various storage mediums and calculate out the daily amount of writes. Oftentimes with SSDs you’d have to literally write a terrabytes of data a week to actually see a problem
Not within the computer’s lifetime. Consumer-grade SSDs are generally rated for 3000-5000 write cycles or more, and contain some kind of wear levelling mechanism to distribute write operations over the entire physical medium to reduce the chance of individual block failures. The first SSD I ever bought is still going strong as my server’s root filesystem.
In my experience, that concern is way outdated.
Theoretically, yes, but I suspect the manufacturing quality of SD cards is a lot lower than SSDs
Most SD cards aren’t really suitable for the kind of workload an operating system generates (that being mostly random i/o). Make sure to get a reputable A2 (application class 2) rated card, they aren’t that expensive but perform way better.
Raspberry Pi themselves launched a card recently, I haven’t tried that one but it’s probably a good choice too.
I think the Raspberry Pi Linux releases mount things onto a ram drive, so the typical IO doesn’t touch the SD Card. But, if you run another OS (which sometimes is the easiest way to get other software running) it tends to just treat the SD Card like an HDD/SSD.
That’s definitely not true, Raspberry Pi OS works and acts like a normal Debian installation per default - with root mounted rw and all.
Other than that, there isn’t much “treating like an HDD/SSD” going on, it just writes to flash when an application requests it does. If the underlying storage is an eeprom, an sdcard nvme storage doesn’t really change anything here.
Switched from a raspberry pi 3 to a second hand x86 thin client (lenovo thinkcentre m920q) because raspberry pi 4 were not available at the time. Made me learn proxmox and a bunch of other cool stuff my raspi couldn’t handle.
I’m rooting for ARM / RISC-V to become more popular in desktop computing / servers though.
I’ve always liked riscv. Just the idea of literally everything on the device being open source is a fun idea. Manuals to everything.
Just because the ISA is open source doesn’t mean that the end product or even the design will be open source.
RISC-V is licensed permissively, giving anyone the right to make a proprietary (or FOSS) RISC-V processor.
Often times, you’ll see mostly open source cores, but then some extention is proprietary.
I did similar once the pi4s were hard to get and expensive. A used x86 mini pc was cheaper and magnitudes more powerful. It runs all my server needs. I’m a simple person: homebridge, plex server, retro game library.
Waiting for proxmox-arm becoming a thing (I know there’s some community versions trying it but I’m not sure how reliable they are)
The hardware virtualisation available for arm just isn’t there yet
Apple Silicon Macs do a great job with virtualization. Outside of them there’s just no nice high end hardware that’s well suited for something like proxmox. It’s either low end SBC, or the hyper proprietary ARM servers that I don’t think we can even buy.
Modern Android phones include a hw-accelerated hypervisor. In Android 16, there will be a feature to run a full Linux VM through what Google calls protected Kernel VM (pKVM).
Qualcomm has their own implementation called Gunyah
Those are heavily customised, we’re talking raspberry pi’s here
Is there RISC-V hardware already? I thought the specification was still under development.
Very much so, not quite ready for prime time maybe, but you can play with it, StarFive is quite well-known for their chips in this space for example
Ok great! Time to get me some presents.
There are some Raspi competitors offering SBCs with RISC-V chips, there is even a RISC-V Mainboard for the framework laptops, but the last time I checked they sadly didn’t reach the performance levels of comparable ARM chips.
Psh if I’m writing at that level I don’t need the performance yet. Thanks!
