What a time to be alive to see millions of people getting starved to death live while world leaders applaud and call it defense.
Fellas, is it antisemitism if we don’t want kids to starve? 🤔
Egypt is letting in supplies but they refuse to let Palestineans leave through Egypt.
One of the Egyptian security sources, who asked not to be identified, told Reuters news agency that Egypt rejected the idea of safe corridors for civilians to protect “the right of Palestinians to hold on to their cause and their land”.
Evidently they care more about the political pressure Palestineans provide against Israel than they do keeping their fellow Arabs safe, and they don’t want to deal with the negative effects of letting hostile refugees in. (That didn’t work out well for Jordan or Lebanon.)
Hamas is an offshoot of the Muslim brotherhood. Egypt has a long history of issues with the Muslim brotherhood. Some of it, in fact, just happened. They are not keen on more of that trouble.
The Arab states don’t want an influx of refugees, especially if that means a fraction of them will Islamist (Egypt in particular), but they also don’t want to let Israel depopulate Palestinian territory by forced relocation of the residents into their countries.
Egyptians are Africans. - Egypt right now.
Honestly this is an awful situation. But the reason you don’t see more harsh criticisms from world leaders (and there have been criticisms and statements calling some of what they are doing as illegal) is because the world leaders know that they may need to same option if something similar happens to them.
Do you have a better suggestion for what Israel should do in order to respond. And saying “free Palestine” doesn’t count. They completely left Gaza and it got worse. I can’t stand Bibi, but he absolutely called it when they were planning to leave Gaza. The blockade of Gaza didn’t start until Hamas took over. And do recall Egypt is also blockading.
If Tijuana started launching rockets and attacked thousands of civilians in California, what do think the response would look like? Or if Morocco did the same to Ceuta?
I don’t see how this attack ends. I mean it has absolutely destroyed the chance for Gaza reps to be involved in peace talks. Not that there was much chance of that. Honestly, if I had to guess, Israel plans to wipe out all of the higher up Hamas this time in an attempt to bring Gaza back under the PA/Fatah.
But, given the situation is what it is, how do you think the Israeli government should respond?
I mean, they kind of left Gaza. They still send soldiers in there all the time, they still control most of its borders, it’s water, electricity, trash, etc, and they cut those things off all the time. It’s basically an open air prison.
Also, Israel has killed off all higher Hamas members before so that won’t work. And Bibi supported Hamas to prevent a two state solution before so doubt he wants them united under one government. He just wants to do a genocide now, let’s be honest.
As for possible solutions, there’s too much emnity between Israel and Palestine, there probably needs to be a third party at this point, even though one caused the problem in the first place lol. Someone that’s not the US or UK, since Israel is basically their puppet state and the UK caused the initial issues, and not one of the anti-Israel states like Iran. Or maybe it needs to be formed from both groups so that both points of view are represented? Idk. A solution is definitely the hardest part for sure.
The only reason they can cut off water and power is because Israel provides them with those things. PA has been given money to develop infrastructure, but Hamas chooses to cut up pipes to build rockets and use cement for smuggling tunnels.
PA doesn’t have any power in Gaza.
“They completely left Gaza and it got worse.”
They left Gaza and then doubled down not only on embargoes, but also on building illegal settlements in West Bank in violation of the Fourth Geneva Convention that they are signatories to.
I mean. I agree that Hamas are fuckheads and the leaders are very safe somewhere else. They don’t care that much about the response. And of course I condemn Hamas’ killing of civilians.
Hamas is a tumor that is not interested in lasting peace with Israel. I agree that moderate factions should be governing.
Now, as what Israel should do. It’s not easy, I agree. Any option has drawbacks, so there is no good solution, especially at this boiling point.
Keep up the siege, or rather lockdown athat point, but let necessities of life through. Let the Red Cross and other orgnizations help the civilians.
The issue is, that doing this will not lessen the disdain peolle in Gaza have for Israel and become new fertile ground of hatred against Israel. Unless they kill everyone there, at which point the situation is solved. But for what price?
let necessities of life through.
But the reason you don’t see more harsh criticisms from world leaders (and there have been criticisms and statements calling some of what they are doing as illegal) is because the world leaders know that they may need to same option if something similar happens to them.
Well in one night Tijuana would be a smoking crater.
Kind of my point.
“Free Palestine!”
See, it counts.
Rewarding their mass murder of civilians by capitulating, surely that will keep them safe.
Remember the Pig War. Nothing changes.
We let Germany decide? Out of all conflicts about disputed territories that was a weird one to choose.
I could have used the MILF Squad.
It sounds like even the US government is starting to get uneasy about Bibi’s bloodthirsty ways.
“Blinken says “Israel has the right to defend itself”, but adds: “How Israel does this matters.””
No food, no water, no power, please explain to me how this is not genocide.
Not to mention the white phosphorus launched by Israel
The Gaza strip has been systematically economically destroyed for over 20 years. The border with Israel has been strictly controlled since Hamas came to power in 2007. Israel does not allow goods to cross the Gaza-Egypt border directly, everything must go through Israel. There are only 2 border crossings, and all import and export is strictly controlled. Import of any goods marked “dual-use” (possibly useful for both military and civilian) is limited. About 80% of business in the Gaza strip has closed doors since the blockade began. Even “internal” trade is hampered by the blockade. Palestinian fishermen in Gaza, who want to sell their fish to Palestinians in the west bank, are restricted by a fish export quotum imposed by Israel. This quotum was halved by Israel last year, cutting income of the fishermen in half.
Infrastructure is periodically destroyed. In accordance with peace accords from the nineties, a seaport was being constructed in Gaza with European funding. However, in 2001 Israeli tanks destroyed the construction site, and bombed the site again several months later. European companies then pulled out of the project. Since 2007 Israel blockades the Gaza strip fully by sea also. A similar fate befell the Palestinian airport: the radar station and control tower were bombed, and bulldozers have cut the runways, rendering it inoperable.
Furthermore, Israel collects tax on behalf of the Palestinian state. These taxes form about 60-70% of Palestine’s income. Israel regularly suspends payments as “punishment” for terrorist attacks. It also keeps part of the taxes collected for itself before transferring the remainder to Palestine. The amount withheld was doubled last year by the Israeli minister of finances.
Another important source of income for Palestinians is labor in Israel. Palestinians are used as a source of cheap labour by Israel in the construction, industrial, and agricultural sectors. When the current war broke out, most of the workers were arrested and deported to the West Bank, even though they actually live in the Gaza strip. Some are stuck there while their families in Gaza die in the retaliatory bombardments.
Because all of that can still be imported through the Egyptian border? Israel isn’t supplying the state that just declared war on them with resources, not intentionally starving all of Gaza to death like you seem to be implying.
If you read the article you can see that Egypt has been prevented from delivering aid by the ongoing missile strikes.
Cairo says it will allow aid to be delivered through its border to Gaza
The Gaza side was temporarily damaged due to air strikes. In the meantime aid is being flown in.
In a statement, Egypt states that it did not close its side of the crossing, and calls on all countries and international organizations in the region to provide humanitarian aid to Gazans by flying it through the El-Arish airport in northern Sinai, located about 56 kilometers (35 miles) from the Rafah crossing. source
When you’re talking about getting food, fuel, and water to more than 2 million people, air drops are not going to be remotely sufficient. Convoys of full size trucks might not be enough. 2 to 3 liters of water per person per day adds up really fast.
Edit: Just for fun, I looked up the capacity of tanker trucks to see how many they would need to get enough drinking water to the civilians in Gaza at a rate of 3 liters per person per day, assuming a population of 2.3 million and a tanker capacity of 60k liters. (Keep in mind, this does not account for water needed for hygiene or food preparation, etc.) It turns out that they would need to bring in 115 tanker trucks a day to keep the civilian population supplied with adequate drinking water. Or, y’know, Israel could turn the water back on.
Damn, it really sucks that Has dig up water pipelines to turn into rockets at this point.
Gaza is not a state, it does not have any of the rights normal countries have, it’s an open-air prison managed by Israel. And it is currently under naval blockade by Israel, so even if Gaza was a state it would still be a war crime.
A prison you can leave at anytime isn’t a prison. They can all seek asylum in egypt
You are talking about ethnic cleansing here my friend. Making a situation so hostile and violent that a population needs to flee their homeland.
It’s a tale as old as time. The other alternative is every few years Hamas attacks Isreal and they carpet bomb Gaza for a few days or weeks.
“If Hamas doesn’t return our hostages, we will kill every man, woman, and child in Gaza.”
These countries are fucked up
Egypt could let them in but:
One of the Egyptian security sources, who asked not to be identified, said Egypt rejected the idea of safe corridors for civilians to protect “the right of Palestinians to hold on to their cause and their land”.
Does dying on their land really help their cause?
It’s probably because they know they won’t be temporary refugees. If they leave Gaza they will never be allowed to return. It’s ethnic cleansing.
Pretty sure the 50% of the Gaza population who are children would be better off not being bombed to fuck. That’s ethnic cleansing. Moving down the road a bit while Hamas gets wiped out seems a wise move.
Palestinian militants have a history of establishing enclaves and starting civil wars within the countries that host them. Arab countries have an apprehension about allowing too many Palestinians in because of this history.
This was a sad thing to learn about. Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan, Kuwait. All of them saw civil war or strife after taking in Palestinians :/.
It’s almost like a certain group doesn’t want peace.
Would it work for a larger country to fly in refugees, since hopefully they’d be much more resistant to civil wars? It’d be hard to sell your citizens on spending that much on non-citizens though.
You’d basically be flying a while other small country into your country. I doubt any state wants that.
They don’t all need to go one place, but I agree it’s unlikely to happen.
This is potentially larger than the rwandan genocide if you count all 2M inhabitants. We can’t just let all these people die.
Right? We could split them up more, basically make the entire population a refugee diaspora split among various Arab countries, but then that means the Jewish people just did to another people what they claim was bad for them. Plus, isn’t forcing migration is basically genocide? We can’t condemn Stalin for doing the same thing a country we support is doing.
Yeah, that’d be pretty terrible. But letting them be killed would be a lot worse. If there aren’t enough supplies able to get in, and countries don’t want to force Israel, it might be the lesser of two evils.
That is a better solution for those who want to flee or have the means or freedom to flee, or are ok with abandoning their communities and historical ties. However this would only help those refugees. For those who remain the situation will remain untenable until militants stop rising to power within Palestinian territories, and Israel negotiates a two state solution that involves giving up some land.
I have a feeling we’ll have more refugees than capacity to help them. But I agree.
I assume the idea is to get the starving Palestinians turn on Hamas.
How would they turn on Hamas? What would that even look like? I’ve heard tons of interviews with Palestinians, and almost all were just as shocked at what happened as Israelis. Many, many already do not support Hamas, but what is there to even do about that when you’re just trying to find enough food and water to keep your family alive?
That strategy has been tried a million times and it has never worked. Remember when Cubans ousted Castro? Me neither.
Okay, so hamas has Israeli hostages. In retaliation, Israel takes 2.3 million Palestinian hostages?
It would seem to be the case. And I’m not sure what Hamas thought would happen.
Hamas wins when Israel makes more desperate people that just want revenge.
Terrorists generally thrive on instability.
Usually they prefer to trade hostages for their own though.
Given that they are committing a war crime against 2 million people, which by some definition can be considered hostages… This is quite rich.
I feel like this is Netanyahu’s final solution.
He gets to genocide the Palestunians, the US gets to invade Iran.
Watch.
Israel: I’ll make my own hostage situation, with blackjack, and hookers!
Aren’t they going to essentially kill the hostages if they keep up with the seige and bombings?
Going full Nazi at this point.
Irony has never been much darker.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
JERUSALEM/GAZA/ASHKELON, Oct 12 (Reuters) - Israel said on Thursday there would be no humanitarian break to its siege of the Gaza Strip until all its hostages were freed, after the Red Cross pleaded for fuel to be allowed in to prevent overwhelmed hospitals from “turning into morgues”.
Israel has vowed to annihilate the Hamas movement that rules the Gaza Strip in retribution for the deadliest attack on Jews since the Holocaust, when hundreds of gunmen poured across the barrier fence and rampaged through Israeli towns on Saturday.
Israel has responded so far by putting the enclave, home to 2.3 million people, under total siege and launching by far the most powerful bombing campaign in the 75-year history of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, destroying whole neighbourhoods.
“The human misery caused by this escalation is abhorrent, and I implore the sides to reduce the suffering of civilians,” Fabrizio Carboni, regional director of the International Committee of the Red Cross, said in a statement on Thursday.
No electrical switch will be lifted, no water hydrant will be opened and no fuel truck will enter until the Israeli hostages are returned home.
He will also visit Jordan, and officials in the Palestinian Authority - rivals to the Hamas Islamists that control Gaza - said Blinken would meet their president, Mahmoud Abbas, on Friday.
The original article contains 822 words, the summary contains 218 words. Saved 73%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
The war has torn up diplomacy in the region, just as Israel was preparing to reach an agreement to normalise ties with Saudi Arabia, the richest Arab power, and months after Riyadh resumed ties with its regional rival Iran, sponsor of Hamas.
The Israel Saudi Arabia agreement probably is one of the major instigating factors of the current events. The new hostilities will push Israel and Saudi Arabia part, ensuring that Iran doesn’t have to contend with an alliance.
“We’ll kill 2 million people in response to you killing 2,000.”
It’s a shitty situation all around.
It’s shittier for some than others.
Hamas launches an attack and then dips out while civilians everywhere get slaughtered… cool… cool…
Well, then Israel has no reason to target Gaza because Hamas isn’t there according to @skozzii@lemmy.ca
Fuck Israel but also… let the hostages go
