how dare you tell someone they are having just consequences, you are the same as the people who are snatching people off the street and deporting them. how dare you sir. how dare you
But there’s a difference between allowing someone the opportunity to take responsibility for their actions and change, and antagonizing them.
“Hey, sorry this happened to you and your family. We are going to fight to stop these policies. Will you join us in our fight against Republicans, the people who did this to you?”
If yes, you get an ally.
If no, then fuck 'em is an appropriate response.
Resistance to fascism needs all the help it can get. Including those who fucked up and are now willing to join the fight, as long as the scales have really fallen from their eyes. Most people like this got duped. They’re victims too.
If you go straight to “fuck 'em”, they disengage, which is a win for fascism. They want the populous afraid and disengaged.
But yeah, if they’re like the business owners who complained about the tariffs and said they’d still vote for Trump again? Fuck 'em.
Yeah but no one here is actually antagonizing this person. They have no idea we’re here talking shit about them.
If they were in front of me I wouldn’t antagonize them and cross my fingers that the pain they’re feeling is sufficient to teach them a lesson, although I don’t have much faith in conservatives learning anything. And that opinion is based off talking to A LOT of conservatives over the last decade or two.
The only conservatives I antagonize are the ones that comment hateful, stupid shit online, trying to spread a hateful ideology or misinformation from the safety of their parent’s basements.
That being said, I actually want conservatives to see people talking shit about them online. Because that’s not the same as direct antagonizing. If you see someone do something you do and they’re getting chastised and outcast for it, you may think twice about your behavior before it happens to you.
Not that conservatives feel shame. It’s pretty clear at this point that they do not. You’re coming from a place where you think these people are redeemable, but there’s mountains of evidence indicating they are not. I remember the Bush Jr years. There was a miniscule fraction of conservative voters that acknowledged he was a mistake after the fact, but most didn’t and went about their lives like they didn’t fuck up.
I recognise that no one here was antagonizing this person, but this genre of Schadenfreude is getting quite popular. While it is satisfying, it isn’t effective at achieving the goal of change. (I’m assuming that we agree that change is a more important goal than satisfaction).
If you only antagonize the worst of the worst and your filter for that is perfect my comment wasn’t directed at you.
I also agree that if you can establish that they are unrepentant/shameless, then the tactics you refer to (social othering, etc.) are more likely to be effective.
I think your final paragraph makes my point, though. Even in the relative electoral college “landslide” of the 2024 election, a small percentage of votes in the right states would have changed the outcome of the presidential election. If we target that small fraction of regretful voters and welcome them to the side of justice (without absolving them of their prior transgression, but also without mockery), that can tip the scales.
I am trying to encourage you and others here to keep the eyes on the prize: change. We do that by winning hearts and minds. We can’t win hearts and minds when we ostracize as our FIRST move.
(Once you find out that they’re shameless, no argument from me)
Nice point! I feel so ashamed. We should love our fellow human beings, even the ones that voted for the literal rise of fascism.
Seriously tho … fuck anyone that voted for this. If that puts me on the same low level as MAGA … good … at least I can gnaw on their head while in hell (Dante’s Inferno reference).
You do realize continuously antagonizing them is exactly what they want right? It makes you no different from them.
But there’s a difference between allowing someone the opportunity to take responsibility for their actions and change, and antagonizing them.
“Hey, sorry this happened to you and your family. We are going to fight to stop these policies. Will you join us in our fight against Republicans, the people who did this to you?”
If yes, you get an ally.
If no, then fuck 'em is an appropriate response.
Resistance to fascism needs all the help it can get. Including those who fucked up and are now willing to join the fight, as long as the scales have really fallen from their eyes. Most people like this got duped. They’re victims too.
If you go straight to “fuck 'em”, they disengage, which is a win for fascism. They want the populous afraid and disengaged.
But yeah, if they’re like the business owners who complained about the tariffs and said they’d still vote for Trump again? Fuck 'em.
Yeah but no one here is actually antagonizing this person. They have no idea we’re here talking shit about them.
If they were in front of me I wouldn’t antagonize them and cross my fingers that the pain they’re feeling is sufficient to teach them a lesson, although I don’t have much faith in conservatives learning anything. And that opinion is based off talking to A LOT of conservatives over the last decade or two.
The only conservatives I antagonize are the ones that comment hateful, stupid shit online, trying to spread a hateful ideology or misinformation from the safety of their parent’s basements.
That being said, I actually want conservatives to see people talking shit about them online. Because that’s not the same as direct antagonizing. If you see someone do something you do and they’re getting chastised and outcast for it, you may think twice about your behavior before it happens to you.
Not that conservatives feel shame. It’s pretty clear at this point that they do not. You’re coming from a place where you think these people are redeemable, but there’s mountains of evidence indicating they are not. I remember the Bush Jr years. There was a miniscule fraction of conservative voters that acknowledged he was a mistake after the fact, but most didn’t and went about their lives like they didn’t fuck up.
I recognise that no one here was antagonizing this person, but this genre of Schadenfreude is getting quite popular. While it is satisfying, it isn’t effective at achieving the goal of change. (I’m assuming that we agree that change is a more important goal than satisfaction).
If you only antagonize the worst of the worst and your filter for that is perfect my comment wasn’t directed at you.
I also agree that if you can establish that they are unrepentant/shameless, then the tactics you refer to (social othering, etc.) are more likely to be effective.
I think your final paragraph makes my point, though. Even in the relative electoral college “landslide” of the 2024 election, a small percentage of votes in the right states would have changed the outcome of the presidential election. If we target that small fraction of regretful voters and welcome them to the side of justice (without absolving them of their prior transgression, but also without mockery), that can tip the scales.
I am trying to encourage you and others here to keep the eyes on the prize: change. We do that by winning hearts and minds. We can’t win hearts and minds when we ostracize as our FIRST move.
(Once you find out that they’re shameless, no argument from me)
Chef’s kiss. Perfection.
Nice point! I feel so ashamed. We should love our fellow human beings, even the ones that voted for the literal rise of fascism. Seriously tho … fuck anyone that voted for this. If that puts me on the same low level as MAGA … good … at least I can gnaw on their head while in hell (Dante’s Inferno reference).
That’s a stupid take.
It definitely makes us different from them. Also I am not quite understanding your logic here. If they want us to antagonise them, what is the issue?