• RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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    1 year ago

    A reminder to move to smaller instances for a better experience

    A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.

    Github Issue 2910 is the kind of PostgreSQL problems that the developers ignored for months and people still defend the developer choices to have the code doing real-time counting of every single comment and post for numbers nobody needs to needs done in real-time.

    PostgreSQL is voodoo to this project, they do everything they can to avoid going to !postgresql@lemmy.ml community and asking for help, learning 101 about how to fix their SQL TRIGGER logic like Github Issue 2910 spelled out June 4.

    • Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.

      And this will always… always be the biggest problem in the FOSS community.

      “I dont like X, so I’m going to leave and make my own version of X”

      So userbases get spread thin, manpower gets spread thin, developers get spread thin, and the user experiences degrades for everyone until it pushes them back to the bullshit websites and products.

      • poVoq@slrpnk.net
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        1 year ago

        This is exactly what federation is meant to solve: power in numbers without the centralization. Is that so hard to understand?

        • Blaze (he/him)@sopuli.xyzOP
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          1 year ago

          Sometimes I question why people not in favor of the decentralization are commenting on a Fediverse platform. Why not go to Tildes, Squabbles or another centralized alternative? There is plenty of fish in the sea.

          • Dubious_Fart@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            This is another big problem in the FOSS

            “If you dare offer valid criticism, then why are you even here? get out and go somewhere else!”

    • HughJanus@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      I mean having a bunch of new servers is not a problem. Just choose one that’s been up for a while and more stable.

      • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        But each additional row in site_aggregates table was causing the instability itself. The SQL code had major flaws. Adding more servers actually made Lemmy crash more.

    • remkit@lemmy.kya.moe
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      1 year ago

      I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub, but you should look at it objectively, Blaze is clearly advocating that people join top instances that’s not lemmy.world or lemmy.ml, not nobody instances that only have 1-2 users. They certainly aren’t going offline as quickly as they come online.

      • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        I know you are salty about how you are getting treated over at GitHub

        No, it isn’t about my personal treatment. It’s about the cultist attitude you have towards Lemmy and the leaders without any ability to see what they are doing behind the scenes with the code. I know cults and religious faith is how many people enjoy the world.

        A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix. It was crashing the entire site constantly. They sat by and asked for donations of money.

        • Zetaphor@zemmy.cc
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          1 year ago

          A 2-line SQL TRIGGER removal takes about minutes to fix.

          Then go fix it and open a PR

          • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Then go fix it and open a PR

            Do you think I am the one who created the mistake or something? That I have access to the servers to install it?

            It’s so odd to me that you respond this way, as if it was my coding mistake. It isn’t even me who opened issue, that is GitHub “makotech222” - is that your answer to them?

            • degrix@lemmy.hqueue.dev
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              1 year ago

              I don’t believe they’re insinuating that you were the one that created the mistake. Rather, that you seem to be knowledgeable of the specific problem and may be the one most capable of fixing it. The two line fix may be obvious to you, but may not to the main Lemmy devs. Until phriskey got involved, a lot of db tuning was being avoided (they’re responsible for most of the big db improvements this version).

              • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                a lot of db tuning was being avoided

                and I did not understand or properly relate to that project culture. It had been that way for years and I should have “read the room” “go with the flow”.

          • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            I think 0.18.3 fixed some of it, but there are likely some more performance issues related to PostgreSQL lurking in Lemmy.

            A TRIGGER in SQL is a logic that executes based on other activity.

            Lemmy uses them so that when you create a new comment or post, it executes code to insert tracking record for votes and comments on a post. One of the things Lemmy does is called site_aggregates, and there was a bug where it was updating the counts for 1500 servers instead of just the one server. That got fixed in 0.18.3

            Deleting accounts in lemmy was causes crashes. I’m not sure if that has been entirely resolved. These things are all kind of hidden in the background of the code, so a lot of developers overlooked that there were problems in them.

            • notfromhere@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              Isn’t there a logstream they could tap into to have a separate async tally going on instead of doing it synchronously? Probably a lot of things could be delegated to an async job performed when server load allows?

              • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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                1 year ago

                I’ve had to really adjust my thinking with this project. They want to do things a very particular way and it goes back 4 years, and a lot of the mistakes are just now getting noticed/attention. For example, comments were not deleting on all the servers, I was testing that after comparing server copies of the same communities and found they were not the same. It just didn’t seem to have a lot of people spot-checking it for mistakes. I am learn to just “go with the flow” and face that it’s more like how musicians would approach design and running a project. Media-focused systems can be that way.

                • notfromhere@lemmy.ml
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                  1 year ago

                  Going with the flow is both ways. It’s a community project so everyone’s opinion matters, especially those who contribute PRs.

        • remkit@lemmy.kya.moe
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          1 year ago

          No, it’s everything to do about your personal treatment, stop deceiving yourself. Just because you claim you have autism doesn’t immediately grant you the right to be entitled. You don’t get your way so you spam create multiple issues to call out the developers, and you expect people to believe it isn’t personal for you?

          If you aren’t happy with the Lemmy developers, fork the project, run your own fork, convince others to use your fork. It’s a FOSS world, no one has to do what you say, even if you claim to be autistic.

          • Ichebi@lemmy.pt
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            1 year ago

            Telling someone “you claim you have autism” is extremely ableist to all disabled people.

          • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            convince others to use your fork.

            Reddit convinced people to use Reddit. Elon Musk convinces people to stay on Twitter. Donald Trump convinces people to vote for him.

            Just maybe the audience level of knowledge about the topics of media is the problem. You. Maybe you are actually attracted to Lemmy because it crashes, just like people flock to Donald Trump because he does bad things. And people flock to HDTV news instead of reading a book on a subject.

            It’s odd but not unexpected that you think the problem is code and does not involve the audience being attracted to certain characteristics. I hear McDondl’s has a lot of customers.

          • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Just because you claim you have autism doesn’t immediately grant you the right to be entitled.

            Entitled to what? free money? discount at the car wash? I see you like claiming things that I never said, who talked about deserving things or being entitled?

            perhaps you do not grasp that autism impacts my writing and the level of pain I have in communicating, even this very comment. It causes me huge pain and suffering to have my brain touch the keyboard and compose English sentences.

            Maybe you lack compassion for my suffering and you are a bully.

    • Blaze (he/him)@sopuli.xyzOP
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      1 year ago

      A reminder that this constant advice people blindly parrot to install and flock to smaller instance has now created something like 1000 new servers in 50 days that are poorly run and already going offline as quickly as they went online.

      I am always advocating for any of the top 25 instances that are not Lemmy.world or Lemmy.ml

      For the rest of your post, I don’t know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.

      • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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        1 year ago

        For the rest of your post, I don’t know what that has to do with people aggreating on LW.

        aggregation refers to the lemmy database tables, site_ aggregates, community, person. The SQL TRIGGER logic lemmy_server uses that has been the source of so many crashes the past 60+ days.

        • Blaze (he/him)@sopuli.xyzOP
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          1 year ago

          Even if the SQL was top notch, it would not be a good thing for 50% of the active users to be on a simple instance. Just makes it easier to take down by any potential attacker.

          • RoundSparrow@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            Shit dude, you still going on about the GitHub issues?

            Is it your cult loyalty to the pro-China project leaders speaking? The authoritarianism that you honor? Do you have blind faith in machine code and are unable to see the level of effort they make to avoid the performance critical code in the application?

            Did their words “high performance” on GitHub mesmerise you into believing it without actually installing the Rust code and looking at their performance your own self?