“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism - the west literally invented it and, despite all pretences to the contrary, has merely tried to hide it from view as opposed to actually dismantling it.
But apart from that her words are perfectly reasonable.
As an American Jew, I’ve almost gotten used to facing anti-semitism from the right. A Republican politician is tacitly approving of Nazis waving swastika flags and chanting anti-semitic slogans? Must be a day that ends in Y.
What’s scared me is the anti-semitism I’ve seen from some on the left. I’m not talking about criticizing Israel or wanting the Palestinians to be safe. I don’t count that as anti-semitism. I’m talking about people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with. And then there are others on the left who try to gaslight Jews who say they are encountering anti-semitism - telling them that they aren’t and are just imagining it.
Intellectually, I know this is a very vocal minority, but suddenly hearing this from the left while still hearing anti-semitic remarks from the right has me scared and not feeling safe. I don’t want to publicly identify myself as Jewish in public for fear of encountering someone who either hates me for my religion or who holds me responsible for the actions of a country that I’m not a citizen of.
people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with.
Here’s a post from someone on Threads declaring that all Jews are legitimate targets. This was in response to an article about a Jewish Temple and Jewish owned bakery in America being vandalized.
I tried arguing with this person and they eventually limited their “it’s okay to vandalize” to buildings that fly the Israeli flag - which would be every Jewish Temple in America.
As a leftist, and being honest about it, I feel the sympathy draining away from me. I see the long-term process of removing Palestinian people from their lands and all the oppression they go through in their daily lives. Then I see the corresponding silence or even intimidation of critics from the Jewish community in America. I disagree with that post you linked to, but I could see how one could evolve into that position as a leftist.
Again, thanks for that post. It helps me see the path I should avoid. We should find other ways to engage the Jewish communities in other countries to become more vocal against the Palestinian genocide by the Israeli government.
And paths to engage and discuss the issues is definitely the way forward. For example, I’m sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, but when I’m hearing anti-semitic remarks from pro-Palestinian folks, it makes me leery to publicly support the Palestinians. I know it’s a vocal minority, but still it’s unnerving.
Imagine if you believed a cause, went to march for that cause, and then saw some people calling for violence against you. Would you want to join that march?
No matter how good the cause is, having people there saying that I’m personally to blame because I’m Jewish makes me leery to join the cause.
“Open air prison,” indiscriminately slaughtering 2.3 million people,’ even the tumblr-esque “not repeat NOT” framing are all indicative of left language
If you don’t believe me, here’s the exact same thing said but just with right-coding. It’s gonna sound really weird.
"Vandalizing a zionist symbol, when the zionists have been responsible for the deaths of thousands while taking billions of our dollars in foreign aid, is just freedom of speech. Wake up, repadamschiff
Focuses on monetary cost, “freedoms,” and downplays the Israeli/Gazan rift for the more neutral “thousands.” I threw in the “wake up” too since that’s been heavily co-opted, but isn’t technically a right-flag
People in different communities code their languag for their in-group and if you pay attention it’s pretty easy to find, once you catch the commonalities.
So saying that attacking American Jewish places of worship and American Jewish owned businesses because of things Israel has done isn’t anti-semitic? At what point does attacking Jews become anti-semitic to you?
Don’t fly the flag of Isreal if you disagree with what the government of Isreal is doing, pretty obvious…
Violence and vandalism aren’t the same thing BTW
Let me explain this further, imagine a German person during the Nazis reign in Germany lives in the US, if they fly the flag of the Nazis, do you think they’re endorsing what the government of Germany is doing? If someone vandalized their flag because they disagreed with what Nazi German was doing, would you consider that to be anti-german or anti-nazi?
Let me be absolutely clear, I don’t condone violence against any one aside from in self defense, I think everyone deserves the right to try and find happiness and meaning in life as long as it doesn’t come at the cost of other people’s well being. I don’t consider vandalizing a flag of a country that is committing war crimes to be violence against people. Just like I wouldn’t think burning or otherwise vandalizing a US flag for all the shit the US has done is anti-American (the people who live in America or were born there and moved out of state vs the government/people in power in the US) but nuance is hard apparently.
When a person’s vandalism is directed at places because they are where Jews go or places Jews own then there’s no difference. And when someone is targeting Jewish organizations because they are Jewish, that’s anti-semitic whether or not any people are injured in the vandalism.
Synagogues represent Jewish faith, not the government of Israel. There’s a very very important distinction there and failing to make it is a serious issue
Maybe Jewish synagogues shouldn’t fly the flag of Isreal if they don’t agree with what the government is doing then? It’s not saying anything about Synagogues specifically in the screenshot.
FFS do you actually think every synagogue in the world supports Israel? Plenty of Jews have spoken out against Israel’s actions. Yet your world view holds that we should attack their places of worship. That’s disgusting.
I literally didn’t say that, and I know for a fact many Jewish people don’t support Israel.
Is it a requirement for a synagogue to fly the flag of Isreal? Again that’s literally indicating that they support the state and what it’s doing.
Once again vandalizing a flag and attacking Jewish people isn’t the same thing in the slightest.
Idk how more clear I can be, you’re literally misinterpreting what I’m saying and what the post is saying to make it look anti-Jewish when it’s only anti-Isreal.
I’ll say this as plainly as possible, I’m not racist, I’m not religious, I don’t support Hamas, I don’t support Israel. I support people’s right to exist and their pursuit of happiness to the extent that it doesn’t negatively effect or harm other people’s lives.
“There are a lot of people afraid of being Jewish at this time, and are getting a taste of what it feels like to be a Muslim in this country.”
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism
To read the original comment again, you may find it’s not about proving or disproving one form of hate but comparing with another level of hate in the country.
And, while there’s no Olympic medal for hate victims being more victimized than another, the physical brand of hate muslims can be a little exceptional after the 1900s. Not being a member of either group, my read of the ‘taste of’ quote would have been more received if the comparison to Germany in the late 1900s was more blatant.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
Yeah, I couldn’t see anything in that statement to defend. It was stupid as best, and makes her sound like she condones the behavior. Like you said, Jewish people don’t need a reminder of anti-semitic hate and violence.
I do find this thing she said dogy…
I don’t think Jewish people need reminding of the west’s antisemitism - the west literally invented it and, despite all pretences to the contrary, has merely tried to hide it from view as opposed to actually dismantling it.
But apart from that her words are perfectly reasonable.
As an American Jew, I’ve almost gotten used to facing anti-semitism from the right. A Republican politician is tacitly approving of Nazis waving swastika flags and chanting anti-semitic slogans? Must be a day that ends in Y.
What’s scared me is the anti-semitism I’ve seen from some on the left. I’m not talking about criticizing Israel or wanting the Palestinians to be safe. I don’t count that as anti-semitism. I’m talking about people on the left saying that all Jews are responsible for what Israel is doing and saying that American Jews (including Jewish temples and Jewish owned businesses) are legitimate targets because Israel did stuff they disagree with. And then there are others on the left who try to gaslight Jews who say they are encountering anti-semitism - telling them that they aren’t and are just imagining it.
Intellectually, I know this is a very vocal minority, but suddenly hearing this from the left while still hearing anti-semitic remarks from the right has me scared and not feeling safe. I don’t want to publicly identify myself as Jewish in public for fear of encountering someone who either hates me for my religion or who holds me responsible for the actions of a country that I’m not a citizen of.
yeah that’s fucked.
With all due respect, I’ve yet to see any Leftist discourse saying anything remotely like what you’ve written. Even on Hexbear.
Thats really awful. It’s not OK to make all Jews wear the blame for another country’s actions.
welcome to the irrationality of racism
Can you point to any examples of that?
In New Zealand, we have had synagogues targeted.
Here’s a post from someone on Threads declaring that all Jews are legitimate targets. This was in response to an article about a Jewish Temple and Jewish owned bakery in America being vandalized.
I tried arguing with this person and they eventually limited their “it’s okay to vandalize” to buildings that fly the Israeli flag - which would be every Jewish Temple in America.
Thank you, that is helpful.
As a leftist, and being honest about it, I feel the sympathy draining away from me. I see the long-term process of removing Palestinian people from their lands and all the oppression they go through in their daily lives. Then I see the corresponding silence or even intimidation of critics from the Jewish community in America. I disagree with that post you linked to, but I could see how one could evolve into that position as a leftist.
Again, thanks for that post. It helps me see the path I should avoid. We should find other ways to engage the Jewish communities in other countries to become more vocal against the Palestinian genocide by the Israeli government.
And paths to engage and discuss the issues is definitely the way forward. For example, I’m sympathetic to the plight of the Palestinians, but when I’m hearing anti-semitic remarks from pro-Palestinian folks, it makes me leery to publicly support the Palestinians. I know it’s a vocal minority, but still it’s unnerving.
Imagine if you believed a cause, went to march for that cause, and then saw some people calling for violence against you. Would you want to join that march?
No matter how good the cause is, having people there saying that I’m personally to blame because I’m Jewish makes me leery to join the cause.
I mean, nothing of what they’ve written here is emblematic of Leftist rhetoric.
It is entirely coded in left language.
“Open air prison,” indiscriminately slaughtering 2.3 million people,’ even the tumblr-esque “not repeat NOT” framing are all indicative of left language
If you don’t believe me, here’s the exact same thing said but just with right-coding. It’s gonna sound really weird.
"Vandalizing a zionist symbol, when the zionists have been responsible for the deaths of thousands while taking billions of our dollars in foreign aid, is just freedom of speech. Wake up, repadamschiff
Focuses on monetary cost, “freedoms,” and downplays the Israeli/Gazan rift for the more neutral “thousands.” I threw in the “wake up” too since that’s been heavily co-opted, but isn’t technically a right-flag
People in different communities code their languag for their in-group and if you pay attention it’s pretty easy to find, once you catch the commonalities.
Oh hey it’s this screenshot again, that still isn’t antisemitic.
So saying that attacking American Jewish places of worship and American Jewish owned businesses because of things Israel has done isn’t anti-semitic? At what point does attacking Jews become anti-semitic to you?
Don’t fly the flag of Isreal if you disagree with what the government of Isreal is doing, pretty obvious…
Violence and vandalism aren’t the same thing BTW
Let me explain this further, imagine a German person during the Nazis reign in Germany lives in the US, if they fly the flag of the Nazis, do you think they’re endorsing what the government of Germany is doing? If someone vandalized their flag because they disagreed with what Nazi German was doing, would you consider that to be anti-german or anti-nazi?
Let me be absolutely clear, I don’t condone violence against any one aside from in self defense, I think everyone deserves the right to try and find happiness and meaning in life as long as it doesn’t come at the cost of other people’s well being. I don’t consider vandalizing a flag of a country that is committing war crimes to be violence against people. Just like I wouldn’t think burning or otherwise vandalizing a US flag for all the shit the US has done is anti-American (the people who live in America or were born there and moved out of state vs the government/people in power in the US) but nuance is hard apparently.
Removed by mod
TIL Kristallnacht wasn’t antisemitic at all. JFC. Wake the fuck up
When a person’s vandalism is directed at places because they are where Jews go or places Jews own then there’s no difference. And when someone is targeting Jewish organizations because they are Jewish, that’s anti-semitic whether or not any people are injured in the vandalism.
Synagogues represent Jewish faith, not the government of Israel. There’s a very very important distinction there and failing to make it is a serious issue
Maybe Jewish synagogues shouldn’t fly the flag of Isreal if they don’t agree with what the government is doing then? It’s not saying anything about Synagogues specifically in the screenshot.
FFS do you actually think every synagogue in the world supports Israel? Plenty of Jews have spoken out against Israel’s actions. Yet your world view holds that we should attack their places of worship. That’s disgusting.
I literally didn’t say that, and I know for a fact many Jewish people don’t support Israel.
Is it a requirement for a synagogue to fly the flag of Isreal? Again that’s literally indicating that they support the state and what it’s doing.
Once again vandalizing a flag and attacking Jewish people isn’t the same thing in the slightest.
Idk how more clear I can be, you’re literally misinterpreting what I’m saying and what the post is saying to make it look anti-Jewish when it’s only anti-Isreal.
I’ll say this as plainly as possible, I’m not racist, I’m not religious, I don’t support Hamas, I don’t support Israel. I support people’s right to exist and their pursuit of happiness to the extent that it doesn’t negatively effect or harm other people’s lives.
It’s unfortunate that Israeli propaganda has been unrelentingly conflating jewishness and israeliness. A real disservice to Jews everywhere.
To read the original comment again, you may find it’s not about proving or disproving one form of hate but comparing with another level of hate in the country.
And, while there’s no Olympic medal for hate victims being more victimized than another, the physical brand of hate muslims can be a little exceptional after the 1900s. Not being a member of either group, my read of the ‘taste of’ quote would have been more received if the comparison to Germany in the late 1900s was more blatant.
But I’ll take this moment to add: the friends I have whom I know follow Judaism do not hate like one state demands they hate. And that needs to change.
Wait, what?
I think they’re referring to stuff like this: https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/israel-paints-palestinians-as-animals-to-legitimize-war-crimes-israeli-scholar/3030278
That doesn’t really make sense though. Why would their friends not hating in this way need to change?
Yeah, I couldn’t see anything in that statement to defend. It was stupid as best, and makes her sound like she condones the behavior. Like you said, Jewish people don’t need a reminder of anti-semitic hate and violence.