Wanna get even angrier? Since the cease fire was agreed, Israel released 150 Palestinian people. In that time, they have also made 133 new arrests of Palestinians for the crime of…celebrating the release of Palestinians.
If this were done by a movie villain, people would criticize it for being too cartoonishly evil and unrealistic.
Imma need a hardcore source for this. Not because I doubt it, but because I’d like to include it in an essay
Aljazeera is the first thing to pop up. You can likely use it as a jumping off point.
It’s the ‘arrested for celebrating’ part that we want a source for and I didn’t see any in this article about it. Just seems very odd Israel would admit such a thing, so if they did I want a solid source to share with others.
You could literally use google and find lots of stories talking about it. Here is a snippet from just one.
THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT narrative surrounding the Palestinian prisoners being released during this temporary ceasefire is both insidious and dishonest. Interior Minister Itamar Ben Gvir has banned Palestinians from celebrating their release. “My instructions are clear: there are to be no expressions of joy,” he said. “Expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism, victory celebrations give backing to those human scum, for those Nazis.” He told Israeli police to deploy an “iron fist” to enforce his edict. https://theintercept.com/2023/11/26/palestine-israel-prisoners/
That is pretty fuckin clear.
My instructions are clear: there are to be no expressions of joy,” he said. “Expressions of joy are equivalent to backing terrorism"
Wow. That is cartoonishly dystopian.
Totally not channeling his inner Nazi… Yet there are still shitbags here twisting themselves in knots to defend everything Israel does.
Thank you!
Ben Gvir is a special kind of evil, but unfortunately not so uncommon in the Israeli government.
Al Jazeera is heavily biased towards Arabs. They mix lies with truths very well, creating a propagandistic media. I advise fact-checking everything that Al Jazeera says and not considering them a trustworthy source. They have zero credibility.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera_controversies_and_criticism
It was the first link in a search on Google. Calm your tits.
“this source is untrustworthy”
“WOAH CALM THE FUCK DOWN JESUS CHRIST WHAT’S WRONG WITH YOU”
No, they’re saying that’s a dumb response because it’s backed by multiple outlets. Sure one way be biased so… Do your own research. Or complain that it wasn’t handed to you tied up with a bow.
That’s great but when they’re being calm and you’re being dramatic, maybe have a moment of self reflection before the pot tries to call the kettle black
Comedy gold. /S
You repeated propaganda from state run media. Get over yourself and your bruised ego.
Hey look!
It’s one of the shitbags I was mentioning in another comment!Just like clockwork to goosestep along with Ben Gvir.
Lol, you’re on one for sure. I had to lookup that name. He seems likes a nut just like Netanyahu.
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And yet some are still defending it. The propaganda is strong.
What makes any news showing Israel in a positive light propaganda and any news showing hamas in a positive light credible? Each side is saying the exact same thing about each other yet you chose to believe only one side as believable.
What a simplistic interpretation of reporting during war times. Reductively representing all Palestinians as Hamas is willfully ignorant. The vast majority of people here are for the people under siege.
If you support people under siege, that would include Israel.
You don’t know what the word siege means.
Only one side can end this simply by going home. Hamas and Hezbollah have both publicly stated their only demand to end hostilities is that Israel stops it’s occupation.
So then why did they attack first? What occupation? Living in your own country isn’t occupation.
Sorry but no. The rest of the world agreed that conquering land and calling it your own went out of style in May of 1945. You don’t get to put your own pictures on the wall and pretend you didn’t steal the house.
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they only influence the elections in Israel, mainly because that is where they are a political block
I wouldn’t be sure of that. Nor would I have any truck with the old puppet-master/squid trope. A lot of countries will budget for influencing various political spheres beyond their borders. Israel shouldn’t get singled out for special criticism in that particular field. Not because what they have been caught doing isn’t reprehensible but because that field of manure is busy with as bad or worse actors such as Russia, China, or the cough USA cough.
I didn’t but I guess thanks for keeping me informed. Also distracts me from my problems which are minor in comparison.
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Watch carefully when you hear and see coverage about this. The people Israel had were “prisoners” while the people hamas had were “hostages.”
This kind of subtle reframing of words happens all the time.
CBS Nightly News had a story that talked about the 150% increase (don’t quote me on the actual percentage) in antisemitism acts, but anti Muslim sentiments were just “on the rise.”
It’s a double standard depending on who they’re talking about.
The one that I saw was early on, after Hamas attacked, the news reported the number of deaths from “the Hamas invasion”. After that, when Israel retaliated and started killing Palestinians, the news was reporting “the total number killed since the beginning of the Hamas invasion”. They lumped all of the deaths from both sides together and framed it as if they were all attributed to Hamas, even though Israel had killed several times as many people by that point.
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Would Hamas have attacked Israel if Palestinians hadn’t been subjected to atrocities for decades?
Hamas is not Palestinian resistance. Hamas stockpiles food, water, and medicine while the Palestinians starve, and they seize aid meant for them – the EU had a project to improve water infrastructure in Palestine. Hamas dismantled the whole thing after they left to use as weapons.
If you need any more confirmation, note that Hamas leadership is a bunch of rich moguls living it up in the UAE.
We can support Palestine while decrying Hamas and recognizing them as a second blight on the innocent people.
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It’s a double standard depending on who they’re talking about.
Always has been, always.
Also note that holding hostages is an international war crime, while keeping prisoners is not. I’ve regularly noticed this language choice on NPR (a public radio station in the US).
Well ya. The Palestinians being released have been convicted of stabbing people. The Israelis were ripped from their homes.
This isn’t an even swap, this is hostages for prisoners. Framing as a hostage exchange is dishonest entirely.
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People? Or israelis?
How were you able to type this out without becoming self-conscious?
They stabbed people in Israel where stabbing people is against the law.
Is that more clear? Are you trying to say stabbing Israelis is ok? Cuz you might want to be careful about advocating for violence against the civilian public. That typically doesn’t end well.
No they stabbed people in West Bank.
Maybe. Because the Israeli courts routinely over charge and convict Palestinians on little to no evidence.
Considering two of the released murdered an Israeli last week, it looks like Israel is doing the right thing protecting their citizens from the clear terrorist threat at their door step. You can claim they’re over charging people…while some of those people are refusing to leave as part of an exchange as we saw this week so even the crooks know that sentencing is light.
A. You got a source for that?
B. Out of how many released again?
Should have kept them locked up quite clearly. Should probably lock up more garbage that’s roaming around with weapons after that.
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Eh, singling out a heterogeneous group of people and advocating for them to be attacked/killed for the actions of a part of that group is so far along the path of fascism as to be indistinguishable from the far right in Israel. Don’t succumb to the dark side Luke.
Ohh yeah. Media lives to throw details into the bin in order to drive a narrative. I think it would take a soldier familiar with the rules on prisoners of war digging for information to realize that Hamas really tried to abide by those rules for their “hostages”. It is however still a very decentralized organization and they can’t enforce such things as well as a professional military.
Doesn’t being a prisoner imply they committed some sort of crime and that’s why they are being held whereas a hostage is someone who was living life minding their own business and are now being held. Another lemming pointed out that many of the Palestinian prisoner were being held without charge but not necessarily that they did nothing wrong - sounds like it could be abused but doesn’t automatically mean it is (probably at times though).
As for the “double standard” from news reporting you’ve made big assumptions. News outlets use words to sensationalise and bend truths all the time but this works both ways. Without know the number for anti Muslim sentiment you can’t know. If anti Muslim sentiment had risen by 12% it wouldn’t be a big conspiracy to suggest that it was “on the rise” whereas a number like 150% is worth reporting especially in comparison to antimuslim if sentiment was only 12%.
I’m not saying a double standard doesn’t exist I’m just saying you might have confirmation bias in these examples.
It implies a justice system with double standards convicted them. Americans who lived through Jim Crow can tell you exactly what that means for the legitimacy of that system.
It sounds shit tbh. I suppose I’m likening it to the people in Guantanamo bay who were never charged but held there (I’m not comparing those people to Palestinians only the legal situation). As wrong as the whole thing was I do believe some of the people there were terrible people and wanted to or did cause real harm to innocent people. The same goes for the Palestinians being held, not all though and it’s very bad to think of the ones being treated unfairly. I’m pointing out some of those people are being treated fairly
Considering two of the people who committed the recent murders in Jerusalem were released detainees, it really does prove that the detention is warranted at least in some cases.
Many of the “prisoners” haven’t been charged with a crime, which disputes their prisoner status.
Most of the “hostages” are foreign settlers in disputed territory, which at a minimum disputes their civilian status.
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You fully made that up to fit your narrative.
Most of the Palestinian prisoners hadn’t even been charged, much less received any trial.
The article states:
A majority of people on the list hadn’t been charged or sentenced for any crime
Which doesn’t do it justice. Majority could be a little more than half.
CNN’s Nima Elbagir apparently went through the list published by the Israeli government and found that 80% of them were held without anything substantial listed behind their names (40s mark).
Fully made up
Except the abducted civilians part
Pfahahaha, I guess decorum is all you need to get away with abusing peoples human rights.
Took civilians to a court, you say? For what? The crime of being Palestinians in the wrong place where they could be held conveniently stockpiled for later exchange? You did say they were just civilians, no? What sort of court is this? The hostage court?
Why do you support terrorists so hard? Just why?
Who said I support Hamas? I’m supporting Palestinian civilians to not get fucked over. Don’t change the subject.
Yup, all these statements are accurate truths, that’s why those words are being used. Israel is releasing prisoners while Hamas is returning hostages.
Oh so now you’re starting to catch on to mainstream media’s blatant twisting of bullshit to fit their narrative?
Please don’t tell me it’s just because you’re finally seeing something you disagree with in the news…
They’ve been doing this to conservatives for years. But just now you see it …
Pretty sure conservatives have been doing it to themselves by being bat shit insane recently and considering fox news is most conservatives holy Grail and is the most deceptive, lying piece of propaganda out there, its a bit funny to hear you say conservative voices are being shut down or twisted
That’s why I only watch Fox News. They don’t twist the narrative of conservatives. /s
You guys are lost. 🤡
Sorry but Jewish Space Lasers are only for really awesome parties. There’s no interface for election machines.
They rounded up another 150 as they released those 150.
They actually have about 7,000 people in “administrative detention” which means people held without charges.
And remember boys and girls, this is not “hostage taking” because - as the simpleton useful idiots never cease to repeat - “it’s legal”.
(Thinking people might start pondering on which laws in their own supposedly Democratic countries are moral and which are nothing more than the hypocritical abuse of “justice” to cover up abuses of power)
And it’s not even “legal legal” either, it’s legal as in “Israel has control of the area because they won’t let the Palestinian Authority rule it on their own, thus they interpret legality as they see fit while outside of the Israeli legal code” legal.
It’s a very “special” kind of “legal” which is transnational so it applies outside the borders of the country that has made that law.
To be more clear. It’s a law made by Israel and enforced in Palestine.
Which is a war crime anywhere else in the world.
Echoes from ghost of the Hague: I was only following orders.
WE will never forget. WE won’t allow Israel to forget either.
Of course we’ll hear the “ThEyRe NoT cItIzEnS sO iTs NoT aPaRtHeId” argument
It’s pretty easy. They basically keep them in cages.
I hate how people treat genocide and other crimes against humanity as a reason to take teams and treat it like “you’re either with team a or team b”.
Any comment here criticizing one thing is taken as approval of “the other team” and I personally find that horrendous.
In America, we citizens haven’t had any significant question where we were presented with more than 2 options as long as i can remember.
Manufactured consent.
Protesting and organizing movement outside the system is the only way the ruling class can be made to do something.
What a load of bs.
Exactly. Folks just prefer extremes, As if they enjoy to keep conflic going.
YES! It’s so frustrating! I’ve never seen any other Topic like that.
Politics? Sports? Religion? Tribalism is pretty much everywhere, probably part of our ancestral hard wiring and DNA.
Are you being sarcastic?
You’re intentionally obfuscating the reality. No one is actively taking sides with Hamas. People are simply voicing support for all of the children murdered by the IDF, which pales in comparison to any of the violence that Hamas has inflicted on Israel.
I bet you feel enlightened with your centrist take.
I don’t know if you realise but people can acknowledge that Hamas did bad things to civilians as well as Israel. The difference is some people can also acknowledge that the only reason Hamas exists is because Israel is a settler colonial state. Without Israel’s crimes against humanity, there would be no need for Hamas to exist. People also have the ability to recognise the western media’s attempt to falsely equivocate “both sides” when one is a genocidal attempt at an ethnostate backed by the most powerful nation the world has ever seen (and friends) and the other is a reaction to this.
“For forty years you try to strangle us. And then you criticize us for the way we breathe” ~ Fidel Castro.
Enlightened? Because I said I hate that people are using genocide as an excuse to take one of two sides? The situation isn’t even encompassed in two sides, the country, the government and the people (and in the case of Palestine, also Hamas) are being treated as one monolithic beings with one agreeing mind each when they are not.
I’m sorry if your “if you’re not with me, you’re against me, here’s a quote from a historical figure” routine didn’t pressure me into trivializing crimes against humanity.
Edit: I’d like to point out how I’ve been called centrist for acknowledging there aren’t two sides and this isn’t a sport event deserving of fans.
Who is supporting Hamas? People have to be supporting Hamas for your original comment to be valid. The vast majority of people are clamoring for ceasefires and humanitarian pauses so that the Palestinian children can stop being murdered.
It’s conversations like this that confuse me because who exactly is commiting genocide? I’m calling the take centrist because you’re making out as if both sides are guilty of genocide when it literally is only one side (the government of Israel, the organisation that the original post refers to). It is a false equivalence. But if you think by me stating support for the liberation of indigenous Palestinians is making it a team sport where I’m somehow trivializing genocide then so be it, that’s what you think.
Hamas’s goal is the destruction of Israel through terrorism. The only thing keeping them from committing genocide (as Israel is capable of) is not having the resources to do so. Both sides want to eradicate the other, but one side is much more capable of doing so. That doesn’t mean that Hamas is somehow less bad.
No one is supporting Hamas.
No one should be supporting Israel’s goverment, either.
Hamas’s goal is to end the oppression and occupation of the Palestinians. There is nothing genocidal about this.
There are Christians living in Gaza and Hamas isn’t committing some crazy religious cleansing on them either. Their problem is with Zionist oppression.
Israel will rise and will remain erect until Islam eliminates it as it had eliminated its predecessors.
Resisting an oppressive fascist ethno-state trying to colonize your land and murder your population is the opposite of genocide.
What you’re saying is like saying Ukrainians fighting against Russia for their freedom is Genocide.
If a 16th century Native American wanted to destroy the government of the United States of America, would you say they were wrong?
Hamas’ blatant anti-semitism towards all ethnic jews is wrong. Hamas’ desire for Israel to not be a nation anymore is justified.
If a 16th century Native American wanted to destroy the government of the United States of America, would you say they were wrong?
Depends if they attack the government or civilians. Palestine has a right to defend itself, the hamas strategy is not exercising that right just like the idf isn’t exercising their right to defend and instead are committing genocide. That’s the point. Hamas would have my full sympathy and support if their strategy wasn’t terrorism.
I don’t support Hamas just like you don’t. I don’t support the death of civilians, Israeli or Palestinian. What I have a problem with in the general sentiment of this thread is people acting as if the Israeli government’s actions are not the cause of this war. Hamas would not exist if the Israeli government never oppressed Palestinian people first. The PLO wouldn’t exist if the Israeli government didn’t oppress Palestinian people first. Hamas killing innocent civilians wouldn’t have happened if the Israeli govrnement never tried to genocide Palestinians. You can argue that Hamas would commit genocide if they could, but the fact is Israel is the one commiting genocide at the moment. Making out as if both need equal condemning (although they need condemning nonetheless) is equivalent to giving a bully the same punishment as the victim who fights back. They are simply not the same.
Fuck Hamas and fuck Israel. But especially fuck Israel.
I’m confused at your tone. it seems like there’s more fundamental agreeing here than disagreeing. yes, one side has more power and has recklessly abused that power. but they both want to destroy each other’s people, including innocent civilians. that’s objectively terrible and is why there is no good side to take.
If conversations like this confuse you, why confidently share your opinions in a public forum on a subject that, by your own admission, confuse you?
The definition of a centrist is completely lost on you if you think the comment you’re replying to is a centrist comment.
It’s literally both sidesing the issue by saying that both sides are equally to blame. The comment intentionally creates a lack of nuance by making it seem like this internet firestorm are Hamas vs IDF supporters.
It literally doesn’t say both sides are equally to blame, you inferred that.
You’re framing Hamas as being merely a reaction to Israel’s aggression, when they actively work, sometimes in collaboration with Netanyahu1, to maintain the status quo and insure they’re own relevance and power. You’re right that Hamas wouldn’t have a purpose without the occupation, and Hamas knows it.
Hamas isn’t a path to Palestinian freedom, they’re an obstacle to it. Hamas are motherfuckers; don’t defend them.
If we say Israel is responsible for the destruction wrought on her own people in reaction to her crimes, then we must hold Hamas to that standard too. But following logic like this makes everybody and nobody responsible and implies that Israel controls the terrorists and Hamas runs the IDF. It’s also precisely the Justification Netanyahu uses for the bombing.
At the end of the day, Israel is the party with the power to stop this cycle, and that is where I think we should put our attention.
Thanks for the info I wanted to access the article but it’s blocked by a paywall/ email submission to view which I’m not too keen on doing. I know Israel had funded Hamas to maintain its own status quo many years ago but wasn’t privy to the possibility it may still be happening. Was wondering if you had any other sources on this?
non paywall link : https://archive.ph/IBRw5
Thank you
There’s literally no disagreement between you two. You’re saying the same as them, but adding a historical context of how we got here. That really doesn’t change condemnation of both nor finding the team sports here disgusting.
People who say they violated the laws here, don’t understand what is mean to be apartheid state.
These state have laws and regulations that basically push groups of people until they leave the country or extents.
I would recommend reading more because any ruling party in your country can easily create laws to discriminate against a group of people that could be you.
Yup. I’ll put this here for those that need the explanation:
- Morals
- Ethics
- Laws
These often overlap but are fundamentally different things.
For instance, a country can be morally bankrupt, value a strong code of ethics, and have laws that have nothing to do with either.
Also, you often need to compare entire cultures before you can see problems with equivocating any of the three.
Yeah the stories, even from IDF veterans, are hair raising. Stuff like rousting Palestinian families every night. And any hint of aggression in response is heavily punished. There is no justice in this system.
Saw one yesterday that they threw tear gas into their hostages cells. The irony of Zionists gassing people…
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What is your point? I’ve only seen people say that when they are denying the genocide commited by Israel. They are pushed out of their homeland and become citizens of Israel, trying to assimilate, it doesn’t mean their culture isn’t being destroyed.
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Many Arab citizens feel that the state, as well as society at large, not only actively limits them to second-class citizenship, but treats them as enemies, affecting their perception of the de jure versus de facto quality of their citizenship.
Ah yes, stabbing people is not a crime in non-apartheid states
I love how you linked to an anti-Palestinian subreddit that ran out of “unprovoked” stabbings for their little propaganda clip, so they just included two examples of Palestinians being hassled by Israelis for good measure (security guard and police respectively).
Meanwhile, the Israeli government themselves published a list of 300 people eligible for hostage exchange on which 80% were listed without charge or conviction.
And that’s not even touching upon the whole “administrative detention” nonsense, nor the physical, mental and sexual abuse of children in between torture.
So either you’re purposefully ignorant in pretending that all of the hostages are violent offenders, or you’re in favor of collective punishment.
The latter would be a rather untenable position, because that logic would mean you condone the hostage taking of Israeli civilians for the acts of their government (more so when you consider the conscription laws in Israel).
Yikes, I encourage everyone to read that Save the Children report linked. What’s really fucked up about that, besides to abuse obviously, is that Isreal is a democracy. With saudia arabia and china and whatever other countries with flagrant human rights abuses, you cut the citizens some slack because they’re living under varying degrees of dictatorship. But Isreal is a democracy, the citizens apparently fine with holding children in military black sites for throwing rocks, beating them, sexually abusing them, depriving them of food, water, and legal representation, throwing them in solitary confinement and so on. The Israeli people could stop this, but they choose not to.
Anyway, back to watching our “lessor evil” president write these monsters another giant check for precision guided hospital seekijg bombs. Hmm perhaps I answered my own complaint.
I agree except most Israelis do not support their leader or government, support is at all time lows, just 25% according to some recent poll. Being a democracy does not automatically mean the government is doing the will of the people. Especially when their government discriminates against their own citizens.
Many of the rights you are accorded in Israel stem from your nationality, not your citizenship. Your nationality is determined by your ethnicity and it cannot be changed or challenged.
Meaning an “Arab” Israeli citizen and a Jewish Israeli citizen, while both citizens, enjoy different rights and privileges determined by their “nationality”. This is not merely discrimination in practice, but discrimination by law.
This is intentional. It is an ethnic democracy executing the will of one ethnicity over another. It puts the power in the hands of those who are most likely to be indifferent to the plight of the Palestinians, and takes power away from dissenting voices.
Many of the rights you are accorded in Israel stem from your nationality not your citizenship. Meaning an “Arab” Israeli citizen and a Jewish Israeli citizen, while both citizens, enjoy different rights and privileges determined by their “nationality” [You can read more about this here].
(Aside - that seems to just link me to the top of that article? Is that a bug on my phone or just weird site design)
This is not merely discrimination in practice, but discrimination by law. Adalah have composed a database of discriminatory laws in Israel that disfavor non-Jewish Israelis. For example, the Law of Return and Absentees’ Property Law are but two examples of flagrant racism and discrimination in the Israeli legal system.
Is it just me, or is it really weird that the two headline laws the article touts don’t seem to apply to Israeli citizens regardless of religion or ethnicity?
The law of return favors Jewish non-Israelis over non-Jewish non-Israelis seeking Israeli citizenship, sure. But it only applies to non-Israeli citizens, literally by definition.
Similarly, from what I understand, doesn’t the absentee property law apply to the property of non-Israeli citizens that was “abandoned” during the early days of Israel? It doesn’t seem to make it easier for the government to seize the property of current Arab-Israeli citizens than Jewish Israeli citizens.
The stuff about the JNF lower down is pretty concerning, but that paragraph stuck out as being a bait-and-switch.
You made some good points and it’s fair to be skeptical of the link I posted. I also noticed that they linked to the same page, whether that’s a mistake or international I don’t know.
There is a working link on that page to laws which are intended to thwart terrorists but because of vague language they can be abused to suppress anyone deemed to be a threat.This is far from a smoking gun, but the claims seem plausible.
Yes and No. Netanyahu has had to keep running farther and farther right to find support. At this point it is debatable that most Israelis support him. (Even before this attack.) He is resorting to election interference and passing laws to silence the courts.
Israelis also protest his policies pretty routinely.
Roughly 80% of those on the list were not convicted of any crimes. They were either charged with crimes that had not yet been prosecuted, or were detained under a practice known as administrative detention, whereby Israel holds Palestinians in the occupied territories with no formal charges or evidence presented against them.
Come on buddy, Hams aren’t real terrorists! Their knives are in caramelised sugar and their bullets are marshmallows
Evil apartheid-istic Israel on the other hand…
/s
Israel became worse than Hamas. I’m not saying Hamas are the good guys, both sides have killed civilians.
Yes. Israel had been sniping and bombing civilians alike all this time but no one batted an eye. But when Hamas conducted their own terrorist acts everyone lost their minds!
These were on two very different scales
Yes, that’s the point. Israel is committing much greater atrocities at a much more frequent rate over a much longer period of time.
Perfect clapback
It’s a settler colonial ethnostate lol. It’s always been fundamentally fascist from the beginning.
And getting Jews out of Europe is doing exactly what the Nazis wanted.
The Imperialist countries, specially the US, have learnt nothing from history. They’re literally funding a fascist genocide.
Israel became worse than Hamas.
Have been since 1949. You know… long before Hamas even existed?
became
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You see, that’s because Israel didn’t kill the women and children…
I guess not all of them… Kudos?
u guys are by far the most racist uninformed bunch on lemmy, for a moment I thought I’m in qanon meeting. oh I’m in political memes? that explains it
That’s just lemmy at this point. The conflict really helped show that it’s not only the extreme lemmys that are like this, but the most federated ones as well.
It’s not just Lemmy. Israel’s lies and threats are no longer working offline, too.
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Yes, and throwing stones is enough to lock up a child.
It’s also enough to kill someone
Or stabbing people! How can they do this to those young ones who just want to stab other people 😭
There was in total 1 person who stabbed someone.
And no context as to why she stabbed someone. Could have been justified for all we know.
Most likely planted. These military courts have 99 percent conviction rate anyway. Its a fascist system meant to terrorise the occupied people. The Israelis on the other hand have civil courts, not military, that difference has a name: apartheid.
Could have been justified for all we know.
All the arrests could have been justified for all we know.
I have to say if some kids were throwing stones at people regularly and one day I got hit in the side of the head and suffered concussion while I was minding my own business I’d probably want them to face some consequences so it didn’t happen to someone else. Just because you’re under 18 doesn’t mean you can’t cause real damage in the world or clearly know what you’re doing is causing harm.
Yeah those little kids sure are doing a lot of murder.
Just because they’re bad at it doesn’t mean they didn’t fucking stab someone… SMH
Maybe you shouldn’t train your kids to stab people and they won’t end up in jail.
My Mom taught me that one. Never forgot it either.
My mom taught me to not kick millions of people out of their homes, start and apartheid state, arrest any dissenters, commit numerous war crimes, and then drop over 6,000 bombs on millions of innocent people in two months time. Not sure why she taught me that.
You’re aware that a greater number of Jews were dispelled from their homes than Arabs in the 40s, Right? You want the right to return, then give those people back their homes too.
You’re aware that Arab Israelis sit in political office, serve in the IDF right? Hardly sn apartheid situation there. How many Arabs have given up their citizenship? Seems like if they weren’t being treated properly, you’d hear about it wouldn’t you? I’m seeing plenty of support for Israel including Arabs willingly rejoining their idf units.
You’re aware that Palestinians have fired more rockets into Israel since 10/7 than the other way around right?
Your Mom probably needs to get off tik tok and go learn some facts.
You’re aware that a greater number of Jews were dispelled from their homes than Arabs in the 40s, Right? You want the right to return, then give those people back their homes too.
Well I don’t want the right to return, my direct ancestors are not from the middle east. But I’m happy to support any Jewish homes be returned to them. But they wouldn’t be returning to Israel, since the majority of people living there in the 1940s we’re Muslim (Wiki, Demographic history of Palestine) so you must be just saying in general, globally, more Jewish people were displaced. Maybe?? But that seems like a false equivalence to me.
You’re aware that Arab Israelis sit in political office, serve in the IDF right? Hardly sn apartheid situation there. How many Arabs have given up their citizenship? Seems like if they weren’t being treated properly, you’d hear about it wouldn’t you? I’m seeing plenty of support for Israel including Arabs willingly rejoining their idf units.
You must not be listening if you haven’t heard about poor treatment (CNN, The war has forced Israel’s Arab citizens to explain that no, they are not Hamas) Here’s an excerpt if you don’t want to click; “Some speak fluent Hebrew and live in mixed communities such as Haifa, while others reside in segregated towns and say they feel like second-class citizens due to discrimination from Israeli authorities.” Oh, here’s another fun excerpt; “His ancestors were evacuated from Iqrit, a village north of Haifa, by Israeli forces during the 1948 war. They were told they would be able to come back in a few weeks, but ultimately were not allowed to, Ashkar said. Israel’s Supreme Court later ruled the eviction was illegal and said the families of Igrit should be allowed to return to their land – but before they were able to do so, the IDF razed the village to the ground in the 1950s. ‘It’s complicated when you are not sure where you belong. I try to avoid thinking about it too much,’ Ashkar said.”
You’re aware that Palestinians have fired more rockets into Israel since 10/7 than the other way around right?
That’s likely true, however a bit misleading. Israel dropped two 2,000 ton bombs creating a 40 foot crater if that gives you any idea of the level of destruction they’re causing daily. Meanwhile, Hamas is using homemade rockets made of old water pipes which rarely get through Israel’s defenses. But sure, both sides are bad here, and I stand by my original statement criticizing Israel.
Your Mom probably needs to get off tik tok and go learn some facts.
My mom doesn’t watch tiktok, she’s getting her misinformation from Facebook. But I agree she needs to listen to me more haha
Teach your kids to roll over and fellate colonial invaders, got it
Israel is the greatest decolonization effort the world has ever seen. Prior to them returning home, the Palestinians never controlled that territory. The British, the Ottomans were the colonizers, Israel is now rightfully inhabited by the children of Judah.
You must know how ridiculous you sound, right?
Are you trying to state that the region was not a British colony and an Ottoman one prior to that?
Or are you trying to state that Jews aren’t indigenous to Judea?
Jews are 2000 years removed from any connection to Palestine. The Zionist movement didn’t even originally want Palestine. They were looking to settle in Africa. And the issue is not whether they have ancestral ties to Palestine, but that they have settled and displaced, and actively continue to do so, the current population indigenous to the region with generations of continuous residence going back to that very same time 2000 years ago
Are you trying to state that the region was not a British colony and an Ottoman one prior to that?
I’m not sure why you think Palestine being under the control of various imperial powers means the people don’t exist. This is like saying there is no Scotland because it is under the control of the British empire
Are you trying to say Jews haven’t remained in the area, along with the surrounding area of ancient Israel? Cuz that’s not even remotely true as evidenced by the raft of countries in the region that exiled them. Jordan, Iraq, Syria. They’ve been there the whole time.
I’m not saying the people don’t exist. they’ve been murdering Jews the whole time, they’re there. They passed on the opportunity to have a country, they preferred trying to commit genocide instead. The deal they were initially offered was far more generous to the Arabs than the Jews too… choosing and losing war has consequences. Seems like they sadly still haven’t learned either, starting this war.
They’ve returned home. They’re not leaving again. If you are going to use the standard Antisemitic claim israelis are from Poland or Brooklyn, check out the census data first.
Oh, good, sexism with my morning lemmy.
Wat
Maybe a Lemmy bug and he was commenting somewhere else? Because otherwise it makes no sense.
I think judging by the other comments, this zionist shit is trying to argue that saying Palestinian women and children were unjustly locked up is sexist…
* Zionists can be Christian too, just like there are Palestinian Christians, who are in danger of being lost forever, their bloodlines dating back to the time of Christ. It was not an antisemitic comment, but since there are many people who think like the person replying it’s been edited.
You can be for peace in Gaza without using disgusting antisemitic language like "zionist rat.
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Have a downvote for being an idiot.
So teenagers slingshoting stones at poliecmen heads or throwing 10 pound cinder blocks at cars windshield get slaps on the wrist in your countries?
No, but we also don’t bulldoze random houses in foreign territory and send our own settlers there to harass the locals until their children are radicalised.
Well…
Not anymore. Most of the time.
Actually we still do tbh, but there’s just so few of them left now the majority just don’t give a fuck.
I had a really good laugh when everyone had to confront the fact that half of Oklahoma is supposed to be owned by Native Americans. And for a second it looked like SCOTUS was going to enforce that treaty.
AFAIK the thousands being held are being held by “administrative detention” which inherently does not have or require charges to be made.
But not necessarily meaning no crime was committed. Downvote my critical thinking please
If they had any evidence of a crime then they would have been charged with a crime, imprisoning a criminal civilian simply because the law enforcers are lazy or too busy is just as bad as imprisoning innocents, there is no need for distinction.
I’m not sure but I think the reason is because they are under a foreign government (Hamas) and have a different legal system. Israel as far as I can tell are acting to protect their citizens by arresting perpetrators but then being unable to process them through their legal system. I can see this could be abused but I don’t believe it would be in every case
No they have no problem putting Palestinians through their justice system. They just use military courts with a 99% conviction rate instead.
That does sound shit, it’s impossible for know but I would like to know the true number of guilty out of that 99%
I guess innocent until proven guilty isn’t an Israeli concept?
Well yes but under those circumstances it would be technically impossible for a Palestinian to commit a crime, and I know most people here think all Palestinians are saints it’s simply not true no matter how much you want to ignore the honour killings, throwing gays off buildings and treating woman like second class citizens. Also for the record the Israelis have done some shit too. Just like people in every country
Done.
Thanks sparlock. Enjoy your day
There’s a critical something there but not thinking.
I can assure you I’m critical of both sides. I just have a problem with all this one sidedness in a conflict where both appear to have done wrong. I do appreciate that in something so complex with so much desperation it would be difficult to act every time in the correct way, if there even is one but that shouldn’t absolve either side of any wrong they have committed. Sure it should weigh into it but it’s not straight up justification for the crimes against innocent people on both sides, none of it is.
That’s great, but objective looks into the Israeli justice system aren’t pretty. So trying to give them the benefit of the doubt doesn’t read like your critical of both sides.
I don’t think I’m really giving the benefit of the doubt, I feel like I’m just not giving the Palestinians the benefit of the doubt either. As in when it’s highly likely crimes are being committed because of high tension, it’s reasonable to assume that at least some crimes were committed. Like I said I think anyone who is innocent and treated as guilty is not worth the blanket guilty verdict to ensure those who are guilty are charged. It’s important to have fair trials when the ability exists. I’m simply pointing out that a lot of the Palestinians (we already know there are crimes committed by Israel) are guilty and it’s not fair to their victims to treat them as saints. If that sounds complicated it’s probably because it clearly is.
If you really want a reality check keep in mind if your daughter or you mother walked through Gaza how they walk through the street in your home town, they would likely be spit on and assaulted for dressing provocatively. And if you your son or your brother was gay they may well throw them off a building. If you haven’t factored this into your arguments please do, understand when you are picking a side you are defending not only their right to land (which I believe they should have) but also their way of life and beliefs (which I don’t). And if not agreeing with killing gay people and treating women like property is islamaphobic (I don’t believe it is) I guess I’m islamaphobic.
Oh yes. Totally unbiased. As you roll in a pit of islamophobic propaganda.
Of course one can ask if you need to jail teenagers for throwing rocks at police and military. But asking ‘how’ is pretty simple: you can look it up. There are laws and if you violate them, you get jailed.
On the other side: maybe ask Hamas where their victims came from. What did the 23 Thai workers did wrong. Or the 10 Nepaelis.
…or even more depressing: ask them where they are. Rumors go around that Hamas doesn’t know anymore where all hostages are. Since Hamas fighters where allowed to take individual hostages as trophy back home. You can only imagine what they might do to a single, young and beautiful woman whose only crime was to be at the wrong time at the wrong spot.
Israel took more than a thousand detainees without any charges. A lot of them are women and children and they don’t even necessarily come from Gaza.
And you should maybe think a bit less with aesthetics, why wouldn’t the less beautiful women and girls be raped? It seems to me that you unjustly discriminate on who deserves the most pity.
There are laws and if you violate them, you get jailed.
hey, slavery is legal so obey the fucking law and don’t fight for your freedom. after all, you wouldn’t want to be labeled a criminal by slavers, now would you?
Ones a terrorist organisation and the other is meant to be a national state you fucking idiot.
Fun fact, in 2006 we had a chance to welcome them into legitimate governance and work towards peace with them.
Instead we, the western world, rebuffed every attempt they made at being a legitimate government and backed Israel’s blockade and assassination campaign.
Second fun fact, you can’t bomb an ideology. You can only convince people it’s not right, outdated, or no longer useful. In terrorism this is often done through allowing them to operate as a legitimate political party. It’s a lot harder for them to justify martydom to their rank and file if they have a seat in parliament.
They may be terrorists but we turned them away.
That suggests that those jailed have been convicted or even sentenced for crimes. Look up administrative detention.
These are not part of the deal.
So about those laws.
Also wondering which Israeli laws allow for the physical, mental and sexual abuse of children. Perhaps it might be good to change those if they exist.
And since we’re on the topic of laws. Perhaps we should look into Article 2 of the CPPCG, and, if Israel insists these people are prisoners of war, which seems to be the case with the venue of choice being a military court, Article 13 of the Geneva Convention on Prisoners of War.
Surely the “only democracy in the Middle East” will adhere to most supreme of all laws?
When you deal with a terrorist organization with no problem decapitating babies or sending bombs on children, then it’s probably a good idea to make detainees prove they don’t have bombs strapped to them…
You can do that with thermal cameras. Bomb vests are super clear on thermal imagery. Have been for 15 years.
The Thai workers were released in the first wave. Don’t conflate that with other stuff.
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You must be on the ground in Israel! Wow. What’s the situation where you are?
