• ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    All of those would lose to Trump by double digits.

    Bernie - too old, Jewish, too extreme

    AOC - minority, woman, young, inexperienced

    Fetterman - health/mental fitness concerns

    Phillips - zero name recognition and too inexperienced

    (Not saying I agree with these, just that those would be what sinks them)

    • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      (Not saying I agree with these, just that those would be what sinks them)

      Sure, you might not agree with those statements. but youā€™re willing to carry the water for people that do.

      The only things in your list that are reasons that donā€™t also apply to Biden are being ā€˜too-much-of-a-womanā€™, ā€˜too-much-of-a-minorityā€™, ā€˜too extremeā€™ and ā€˜too inexperiencedā€™.

      I donā€™t really want to get into the first two any further than I just did, but as far as too extreme goes. Bernie sanders is a socialistā€¦ which is why so many Millennials (and Gen Z) supported him. it wasnā€™t a coincidence. we support that extremism. to be perfectly honest, itā€™s only ā€˜extremismā€™ compared toā€¦ you knowā€¦ the conservatives like Joe Biden (Republicans are not conservatives. Conservatives seek to maintain the status quo. Republicans are regressives. Biden is a conservative.) So, the only people who really find Bernie and other progressives ā€œtoo extremeā€ā€¦ are the very people whoā€™re right now screaming at us to ā€œVOTE BLUE NO MATTER WHOā€. Pretty sure theyā€™re frothing at the mouth by now.

      TLDR: theyā€™re not too extreme if you actually pay attention to your electorate.

      Now, as for the ā€˜Too inexperiencedā€™ bit. Sure. Biden has a shitload of experience. Too bad more than 3/4ā€™s of it apply to a world that fundamentally no longer exists. biden was born in 1942 (81 yo). the WordWideWeb was first released in 1990 (33 years). Friendster and Myspace were first launched in 2003, face book in '04 (20 years). More than half of bidenā€™s much-vaunted experience predates the internet as we know it. More than 3/4ā€™s of his this experience predates modern social media. The world is fundamentally different, and that experience isnā€™t just something to be outright dismissedā€¦ itā€™s something thatā€™s actively an issue. Because it creates a sort of inertia. You can see that inertia in things like his attitude towards climate change (Weā€™re society as we know it is fucked if nothing changes, and heā€™s really quite ā€˜[meh]ā€™(https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/09/business/oil-production-biden-trump/index.html).), in policing and drug policy reform (who fucking cares about social justice, huh? the corporations that put him in power donā€™t.), in how he expects everyone to just fall into line and vote for him cuz he says so (typical boomer bullshit. Probably taught it to the boomers himself.)

      Biden has been part of government for longer than Iā€™ve been alive. And government has been not-working (or not working very well,) for actual Americans (it has been working very well for corporations and billionaires.) for as about as long, too. heā€™s part of the problem. heā€™s not being part of the solution. TLDR: Biden has a long track record of not being part of the solutions to the problems that pose an existential risk.

      Oh, and a note about ā€œname recognitionā€. lets look at the reason no one under the age of 60 has name recognition to begine with: Its because of all the erā€¦ long-servingā€¦ senators and representatives that have refused to retire, while also failing to develop and groom the next generation to replace them. Itā€™s just another policy fuck up on the part of the DNC. a pretty egregious one, you ask me. Either way, weā€™re going to have the crisis of ā€œnobody elseā€ either now or in four years, so we might as well face it now. You know. Like how Biden promised heā€™d only go for one term, so that, you know, they could find that candidateā€¦ why should we believe them this time?

      (edit some formatting)

      • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        I really appreciate what you are saying here. Look, I was a huge Bernie supporter. Heā€™s still the only politician I have ever donated to support.

        I am a single issue voter and I think everyone should be this election. That single thing is keeping Trump away from the presidency. We are FUCKED if he gets in again.

        The fact is, only 10 times in history (Trump being one) has the incumbent president lost. I donā€™t like Biden any more than you do, but incumbency and having beaten Trump once is a resume no other candidate can match.

        I think we need to be talking about Biden getting a new VP. Kamela Harris does not add to Bidenā€™s chances of winning. Whether it is simple racism/sexism or whatever, the public hates her. Letā€™s get a VP candidate who could carry the torch for Biden after 4 years (or less if he dies in office). That would go a long way to assuage the publicā€™s concerns over Bidenā€™s age. Dean Phillips would be a great option for that. He would be perfect to pull undecided moderate voters and he would be a great public face for Democrats. (My first choice would be Fetterman, but putting that behemoth standing next to Biden would do little to help the image of Biden being feeble).

        • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Hereā€™s the thing.

          Look at why trump and the others all lost. They were unpopular.

          Your single issue is ā€œnot trumpā€. Yet, there are many better canidates than Biden who are also not-trump.

          Incumbency is only really an advantage if your incumbent isnā€™t fucking the pooch. And Biden is definitely fucking the pooch. Climate, Israel/Palestine. The economy (and the disparity between their propaganda and people hurting,). The only thing heā€™s really got running is that heā€™s not trump, and somebody explained why he needs to keep his mouth shut on abortion.

          Virtually any one left of center-right republicans meet that standard.

          If defeating trump is your goal, wouldnā€™t finding the best candidate possible- and do you really think if Biden kept his word, bowed out of the second term, do you really think, thatā€™d be a disadvantage?

          Are you okay with a liar, whose soft on the largest segment because heā€™s constantly ignoring that segmentā€™s needs, after trump has bad 4 years to whip his base and retcon Jan 6, while Biden and the DoJ and everyone else sat for over years with their thumbs up their asses?

          • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I think people are being immensely unfair to Biden. He has done a fat better job than I expected. Donā€™t forget how bad off we were when Trump left office. I was certain we were going for another recession like 2008 and Bidenā€™s policies saved us from that. He got vaccines out to the public efficiently so people could live their lives again. He got the supply chain working again so we donā€™t have shortages of essential products anymore. The Build Back Better plan put billions into expanding solar and wind (as well as expanding US production of these technologies) as well as expanding the availability of electric chargers across the nation.

            I mean just look at all this stuff? Most of this has been on the progressive wish list for years.

            https://www.whitehouse.gov/build-back-better/

            I donā€™t blame Biden for running again. There is a total lack of qualified leadership. The newer generation like Fetterman and AOC are promising but too inexperienced. Nobody has stepped up to take the lead.

            Can I imagine a better candidate? Of course. Do I think anyone could have done better? Maybe Bernie, but honestly I donā€™t even think he could have realistically made more progressive change.

            • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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              1 year ago

              He has done a fat better job than I expected. Donā€™t forget how bad off we were when Trump left office. I was certain we were going for another recession like 2008 and Bidenā€™s policies saved us from that

              Whatā€¦ policies? it amazes me how people trot out how good the economy is to support Biden; yet then when people point out itā€™s not actually all that great for most peopleā€¦ ā€œoh whatā€™s he supposed to do?! the Fed, the treasury, theyā€™re all independent! he canā€™t do anythingā€

              in any caseā€¦ they kinda sorta had to redefine what a recession was, unless you forgot that part. Could it have been much worse? absolutely. is Biden better than trump? ABSOLUTELY. but acting like itā€™s a binary choice is exactly how we got here, and following it will solve nothing.

              • ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world
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                1 year ago

                What policies?! The policies that put $6 trillion into the economy so it didnā€™t crash. The American Rescue Plan? The American Jobs Plan? The Build Back Better Plan? You know, all the shit that Republicans were screaming at about being socialist handouts that would destroy America?

                • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
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                  1 year ago

                  The policies that put $6 trillion into the economy so it didnā€™t crash.

                  Just going to address this specifically. what you mean to say is 'didnā€™t crash yet. weā€™re not out of this by a long shot; and thereā€™s still enough economic stressors on Americans that it might just collapse anyhow.

                  One of the major sources for inflation has been all that aid floating around. most of the covid relief was paid for with increased debt. (though taxation on certain types did increase,) Iā€™m not saying they shouldnā€™t have, but all that aid is a direct cause of inflation. I want to be clear on that. A lot of the aid- especially the aid that went to actual humans and not corporations- was vital and necessary. But then, there was a lot of it that was just straight up not- for example the PPP loans, of which the 1 million or so worth that remains unforgiven is almost entirely held by single-proprietor small businesses; aka the exact people who were supposed to be helped by it.

                  Also, Biden kept Powell on as the chairman of the fed- so Powellā€™s shit flows up hill to land at his desk. (this was about the only influence biden has on what follows, mind you.) Which means that Biden is responsible for the inflation that was caused by Powell dropping the interest rates to zero and keeping them for 2 years Certainly didnā€™t help inflationā€¦ Neither did his literally printing cash to

                  Nor did his blaming the wages of workers rising for inflation (which, yes, normally accounts for some of it. but not nearly as much as he seemed to believe.) we all know itā€™s corporate greed thatā€™s largely to blame for the bulk of it.

                  The American Rescue Plan? The American Jobs Plan? The Build Back Better Plan?

                  Legislative acts rammed through by democrats who had control of both parties. Biden doesnā€™t get to take sole credit here, and since this entire discussion is about who should be the DNCā€™s nomineeā€¦ well, you see how that goes, right? thereā€™s a lot of people who worked on getting this done. Most of them not in the executive branch. Biden may have thrown his hat in to support them. He may even have contributed to them. but most of the ideas didnā€™t originate with him. (thatā€™s just not how politics works. To be fair, it didnā€™t originate with the senators and representatives, eiher. probably got handed to all three at the same time by the lobbyists.)

                  You know, all the shit that Republicans were screaming at about being socialist handouts that would destroy America?

                  All of Bidenā€™s legislative agenda has stalled since the 118th congress was seated, because the way of doing things- the way heā€™s always done things- no longer works with a party as inherently obstructionist as the republicans. especially the freedom caucus.

                  It was ā€œeasyā€ when democrats held both houses of congress and could (or should have been able to) ram through whatever they wanted. So much for all of that much-vaunted experience working across the aisle. welcome to a new eraā€¦ weā€™ve been here for a while, and it sucks.