• Zoolander@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    who is this person

    Someone who doesnā€™t play any instrument, including singing. There are unending numbers of people who will tell you theyā€™re not musicians because they donā€™t even try. Anyone who doesnā€™t try but tells you theyā€™re a musician is a liar. Thatā€™s the point.

    load of gish gallop

    Nothing that Iā€™ve said should have been overwhelming or inundating. My premise is incredibly simple. You just keep misunderstanding it repeatedly because it seems that youā€™re not even reading whatā€™s being said.

    Weā€™re not talking about interpretation from the Bible. Weā€™re talking about the definition used by Catholics that is part of their dogma and doctrine. Weā€™re talking about quoting the (supposed) words of Jesus in places where there is no debate on the meaning. You can try to dismiss and downplay what Iā€™ve said all you want but none of what Iā€™ve said is inaccurate whereas your response is full of inaccuracies and misunderstandings.

    • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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      11 months ago

      Someone who doesnā€™t play any instrument, including singing.

      Lol, so someone who wants to claim to be a musician but canā€™t even sing badly (or rap badly, because rappers are still musicians)? Thatā€™s who weā€™ve excluded? Wow, what a useful definition for musician. šŸ™„

      Who is this person who wants to go around claiming musician creds and then canā€™t attempt a couple of bars?

      Your argument just sucks dude, get over yourself.

      EDIT: Thanks for the downvote!

      • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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        11 months ago

        Congratulations, you understand my example. Thatā€™s my entire point. Someone who does not play or sing cannot possibly be a musician. If you donā€™t do the thing that defines the word that means ā€œsomeone who does this thingā€, then you canā€™t be that thing. Thatā€™s the argument! If someone claims to be a Christian and doesnā€™t follow the example of the figurehead of Christianity, then they are not a Christian. If you donā€™t like the musician example, come up with a better one.

        My argument doesnā€™t suck. You suck.

        • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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          11 months ago

          Someone who does not play or sing cannot possibly be a musician.

          But given that bar thereā€™s nobody that could claim to be a musician and then not just shit out a couple of bars and be one by your definition. So, again, your definition sucks (EDIT: and it happens to actually prove that what someone else is saying about ā€œclaiming to be a Christian makes you a Christianā€ is essentially trueā€¦because I can claim to be a musician and then sing a little happy birthday and I fit your definition).

          If someone claims to be a Christian and doesnā€™t follow the example of the figurehead of Christianity, then they are not a Christian.

          Now itā€™s ā€œfollow the exampleā€. So is that words? Actions? Both? Who determines what is ā€œChrist-likeā€? You? Are you the guy who determines who is and isnā€™t a Christian?

          You suck.

          Right back at ya slick.

          • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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            11 months ago

            Are you being intentionally obtuse here or what? The definition isnā€™t about being capable of singing (even poorly). Itā€™s about whether or not the person does that thing in their life. If you donā€™t like the music example, choose a different profession. For example, if I claim to be a golfer, I canā€™t be one if I donā€™t play golf. I canā€™t claim to be a golfer and then ā€œshit out golf clubs and whack a ball aroundā€. Youā€™re just being an asshole and arguing semantics over the fact that someone can use their voice. Normal, reasonable people understand that ā€œshit[ting] out a couple barsā€ doesnā€™t make one a music anymore than hitting a golf ball at a party makes you a golfer. Stop being disingenuous.

            Now itā€™s ā€œfollow the exampleā€

            What do you mean here? This implies that my position on this has changed somewhere. Iā€™ve already clarified in my 1st response to you that ā€œbelief in Jesusā€ isnā€™t enough to make someone Christian. Itā€™s what started your whole fake confusion about being a musician. This kind of nonsense just leads me to believe that youā€™re not arguing in good faith here (which is already obvious but I try give people the benefit of the doubt).

            To answer your question, Christ determines what is ā€œChrist-likeā€. I would think that was obvious and implied but now you just seem to be pretending to be confused.

            • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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              11 months ago

              Youā€™re just being an asshole and arguing semantics over the fact that someone can use their voice. Normal, reasonable people understand that ā€œshit[ting] out a couple barsā€ doesnā€™t make one a music anymore than hitting a golf ball at a party makes you a golfer. Stop being disingenuous.

              Youā€™ve done nothing but argue semantics the entire thread. Iā€™ve golfed before but Iā€™m not a golfer largely because I donā€™t claim to be nor aspire to be a golfer despite having golfed at one point. Peopleā€™s identity is to a large extent wrapped up in the claims they make about themselves. I understand that thereā€™s a common understanding of what a ā€œgolferā€ or a ā€œbarberā€ or a ā€œChristianā€ is, but youā€™re the guy trying to invent the new one. Iā€™m trying to follow your ā€œlogicā€ here to get an actual definition of a Christian that excludes this Mike Johnson character (for instance).

              If someone says theyā€™re a Christian, says they believe in Christ (for whatever that means), and they go around spouting quotes from the Bible, theyā€™re a Christian by my logic. Theyā€™re a Christian by most peopleā€™s logic. Youā€™re trying to define it some other way, so provide your criteria.

              To answer your question, Christ determines what is ā€œChrist-likeā€. I would think that was obvious and implied but now you just seem to be pretending to be confused.

              Well Christ isnā€™t around to call balls and strikes, so then by your definition nobody can be a Christian.

              • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                11 months ago

                This is not about logic! Weā€™re discussing religion, for Peteā€™s sake.

                Itā€™s not my definition, itā€™s the definition of what it means to be a Christian from the source of the word. Itā€™s literally in the name - Christian. Spouting Bible verses doesnā€™t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesnā€™t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah). Just because youā€™re intellectually lazy and because your logic only extends so far as immediately obvious ā€œif a then bā€ situations doesnā€™t mean that thereā€™s anything wrong with my argument.

                The entire point of this thread is that ā€œChristiansā€ arenā€™t using their own logic and definitions. They can say that ā€œMike Johnsonā€ isnā€™t a Christian because theyā€™re perverting the definition of the word to include whatever specific flavor they like. Even if he did fit that specific flavor, they just move the goalposts and then he suddenly becomes ā€œnot a Christianā€ again.

                by your definition nobody

                Yet againā€¦ itā€™s not my definition. Christ was the one that defined what it means to be Christ-like. If someoneā€™s actions do not reflect the actions of Christ, then theyā€™re not ā€œChrist-likeā€. I donā€™t understand how much more this can be spelled out for you.

                • aesthelete@lemmy.world
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                  11 months ago

                  Spouting Bible verses doesnā€™t make someone a Christian. They could be Jewish, after all! Believing in Jesus doesnā€™t make someone a Christian - that would mean that Muslims are Christians since they believe Jesus was simply a human prophet (rather than the son of Allah).

                  Claiming to be a Christian is a large part of what it takes to be a Christian by common definition. You skipped over that part likely because itā€™s devastating to your bad argument. šŸ„±

                  EDIT: I also think itā€™s funny that you think ā€œbelieving in Jesusā€ would be as simple as believing that there was a guy that walked the Earth named Jesus that said and did some holy stuff. Believing in Jesus for most people would mean believing in his divinity, not just that oh there was this swell guy that walked around at one point.

                  • Zoolander@lemmy.world
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                    11 months ago

                    Claiming to be a Christian means nothing. I didnā€™t skip anything. Itā€™s literally the same argument as the ā€œclaiming to be a golferā€ and ā€œclaiming to be a musicianā€ arguments that you canā€™t wrap your head around.

                    Claiming to be a Christian is not a part of what it takes to be a Christian anymore than claiming to be Scotsman makes someone not born in Scotland one.

                    Edit: Your edit is even stupider than the body of your post. Satan is not a Christian yet, by your definition, he would have to believe in Jesusā€™ divinity and would, therefore, be a Christian. This is how stupid your responses are.