The person you replied to absolutely understands that. What ends up happening is dumb leftist not voting for anyone because their candidate isn’t perfect to their definition.
I say dumb, because I would describe myself as a leftist progressive, but I actually vote.
Sure, but is that a thing that actually happened or it is just a rhetorical device that people trot out to shut down any discussion of moving the Democratic party in the “wrong” direction?
Like we SHOULD be able to talk about why the DNC ran a really unappealing candidate and why their positions were unpopular without that discussion being. “So I GuESS yoU LoVe TRumP huh?”
A party that cannot analyze or even ADMIT to their own failure isn’t one that is trying to win.
Everyone who voted for the Green Party were well aware that the intention was a Trump win and a Harris loss. Their people literally said as much.
Was it enough to cause a Harris loss? I don’t know. I don’t have enough information to know how many voters were discouraged. There were absolutely a ton of people on Lemmy talking about how the only “good” vote was a vote against Harris though.
So it is a problem. Just the matter of degree is unknown.
So your conclusion is that people not voting for Harris has absolutely nothing to do with Harris actual position on the issues or her suitability as a candidate? The tiny fraction of people that voted for someone else while somehow not wanting Trump to win is the real problem, not bad democratic candidates? You think that approach is going to accomplish anything apart from continuing to lose elections?
The term „genocide Joe“ targeting Joe Biden is a good example of this as well.
The American political system has successfully sidelined the left. The educated managerial class progressive left dominates left discourse with victim Olympics, complex and ever changing rules on language use, identity politics, moral purity testing. The (unionized) working class and petit bourgeoisie feels disregarded and vote MAGA. Both hurt Democrat success in elections.
I find it fascinating that people like you think that it is the people who OPPOSED the genocide in Gaza that have the extreme position and not the the democratic candidate for president mirroring Donald Trumps position.
I agree that an insane position on Gaza is why Harris lost. So I guess the question to ask is why did Harris TAKE an insane position on Gaza?
I don’t want another centrist candidate. A lot of people share that view. Everyone knows a lot of people don’t want another centrist. The current political landscape clearly favors a progressive candidate like Mamdani, Bernie, or AOC
We’re years away from the election. Election results are good for progressives that focus on fixing real issues the average American experiences. Centrist Democrats have been performing poorly
If the DNC pushes Newsom in 2028 and he loses, it will squarely be the fault of the DNC. Voter preferences are clear, just as they were in 2024 and 2016
At some point we have to admit the candidates pushed by the DNC were unpopular. They lost because no one wanted them. The DNC preferred a Trump presidency over a progressive Democrat
“Vote blue no matter who” does not work. Democrats lost in both 2016 and 2024 against one of the worst candidates in presidential history because the DNC did a poor job. It’s the DNC you should be upset with, not the people who got sick of pinching their nose to vote
I voted against Trump 3 elections in a row. I’m fucking sick and tired of having to vote for pro-corporate Democrats. I didn’t feel any of them had my interests in mind
Really? Cause I am the one suggesting that maybe we do something that we haven’t done in 20 years, which is to run a candidate that ISN’T a corporate conservative democrat. And I am suggesting that we do it with a solid couple of years available to really make sure we do it right.
How is advocating to keep doing the same failed tactic over and over again the position that is going to “change” things?
Really? Cause I am pretty sure I made a pretty clear suggestion. Oddly, you are the person who has contributed nothing but criticism in this discussion. Are you capable of actually suggesting something or can you only bitch and moan about what other people say?
Are Bernie and Mamdani a “socialist revolution”? Because I’m quite happy with both of them as politicians. Then again I’m also happy with Tim Walz. Weird how all 3 of those are supposedly socialist revolutions despite having such different policies
Leftists are unhappy with anything that‘s not a socialist revolution exactly according to their ideology.
Seriously, the above image is literally the reason the U.S. has Trump twice now. Delusional people genuinely don’t understand the world.
“Don’t vote Harris! She’s just as bad!”
“I hate Hillary Clinton though”
Congrats, this is your fault.
I will vote against Trump, even if it’s Gavin Newsom. If you don’t you’re a fucking moron.
You understand that people can vote against Trump and also think that it’s a good idea to actually run decent candidates to oppose him, right?
The person you replied to absolutely understands that. What ends up happening is dumb leftist not voting for anyone because their candidate isn’t perfect to their definition.
I say dumb, because I would describe myself as a leftist progressive, but I actually vote.
Sure, but is that a thing that actually happened or it is just a rhetorical device that people trot out to shut down any discussion of moving the Democratic party in the “wrong” direction?
Like we SHOULD be able to talk about why the DNC ran a really unappealing candidate and why their positions were unpopular without that discussion being. “So I GuESS yoU LoVe TRumP huh?”
A party that cannot analyze or even ADMIT to their own failure isn’t one that is trying to win.
Everyone who voted for the Green Party were well aware that the intention was a Trump win and a Harris loss. Their people literally said as much.
Was it enough to cause a Harris loss? I don’t know. I don’t have enough information to know how many voters were discouraged. There were absolutely a ton of people on Lemmy talking about how the only “good” vote was a vote against Harris though.
So it is a problem. Just the matter of degree is unknown.
So your conclusion is that people not voting for Harris has absolutely nothing to do with Harris actual position on the issues or her suitability as a candidate? The tiny fraction of people that voted for someone else while somehow not wanting Trump to win is the real problem, not bad democratic candidates? You think that approach is going to accomplish anything apart from continuing to lose elections?
I don’t believe I said any such thing, so I would appreciate you not implying that I did.
Oh sorry, I assumed you were making a substantive reply that merited a response. Feel free to fuck off then.
The term „genocide Joe“ targeting Joe Biden is a good example of this as well.
The American political system has successfully sidelined the left. The educated managerial class progressive left dominates left discourse with victim Olympics, complex and ever changing rules on language use, identity politics, moral purity testing. The (unionized) working class and petit bourgeoisie feels disregarded and vote MAGA. Both hurt Democrat success in elections.
I find it fascinating that people like you think that it is the people who OPPOSED the genocide in Gaza that have the extreme position and not the the democratic candidate for president mirroring Donald Trumps position.
I agree that an insane position on Gaza is why Harris lost. So I guess the question to ask is why did Harris TAKE an insane position on Gaza?
I don’t want another centrist candidate. A lot of people share that view. Everyone knows a lot of people don’t want another centrist. The current political landscape clearly favors a progressive candidate like Mamdani, Bernie, or AOC
We’re years away from the election. Election results are good for progressives that focus on fixing real issues the average American experiences. Centrist Democrats have been performing poorly
If the DNC pushes Newsom in 2028 and he loses, it will squarely be the fault of the DNC. Voter preferences are clear, just as they were in 2024 and 2016
At some point we have to admit the candidates pushed by the DNC were unpopular. They lost because no one wanted them. The DNC preferred a Trump presidency over a progressive Democrat
“Vote blue no matter who” does not work. Democrats lost in both 2016 and 2024 against one of the worst candidates in presidential history because the DNC did a poor job. It’s the DNC you should be upset with, not the people who got sick of pinching their nose to vote
I voted against Trump 3 elections in a row. I’m fucking sick and tired of having to vote for pro-corporate Democrats. I didn’t feel any of them had my interests in mind
So therefore the only thing we can do is elect bigot conservatives? How is that working out so far?
This black and white thinking only makes you feel morally superior, but doesn’t actually change anything.
Really? Cause I am the one suggesting that maybe we do something that we haven’t done in 20 years, which is to run a candidate that ISN’T a corporate conservative democrat. And I am suggesting that we do it with a solid couple of years available to really make sure we do it right.
How is advocating to keep doing the same failed tactic over and over again the position that is going to “change” things?
So far you haven’t suggested to do anything, only criticized.
Really? Cause I am pretty sure I made a pretty clear suggestion. Oddly, you are the person who has contributed nothing but criticism in this discussion. Are you capable of actually suggesting something or can you only bitch and moan about what other people say?
Are Bernie and Mamdani a “socialist revolution”? Because I’m quite happy with both of them as politicians. Then again I’m also happy with Tim Walz. Weird how all 3 of those are supposedly socialist revolutions despite having such different policies