Drivers shouldn’t be allowed to see the tip amount prior to delivery completion. That, or tipping shouldn’t be allowed until after completion. I hate this more recent model of tipping before receiving service. Because as you said, it’s a bid for service, not an acknowledgement of good service.
You realize that gig economy is the neoliberal slang for a poverty class work, but without the rights of workers, right?
So you’re criticizing people who are forced by the system in which we live, to be ordered around by a fucking algorithm, and then take abuse from people who have enough money to NOT work in the gig economy, but no where near enough to actually own the servant class they get off on abusing.
You realize that the gig economy is not my responsibility, right? I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid. I’m criticizing the exploiters for underpaying their workers. If you can’t pay your workers enough, that is not my fault. You are not entitled to exploit anyone for your personal gain.
If the pay isn’t enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid.
Study: When questioned about continuing to work for poverty wages, gig workers across the nation respond with resounding “guess I just didn’t think about it because I’m so goddamned stupid” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
The first statement was meant as in these delivery services don’t deserve to keep their workers. They should instead look for a better job that will pay them properly. But that’s what these delivery services do…prey on the vulnerable that are desperate which is why there should be laws protecting them.
I agree with you completely but at the same time I have disdain for gig workers because they all seem to operate under an entirely different set of traffic laws and social conventions. At least where I live.
The pay is about $2 per order, regardless of mileage. Dashers can typically complete 2-3 orders per hour, and pay for their own fuel. The base pay is absolutely not worth it.
They are paid approximately $4 to $6 per hour, and yet some people are still defending the practice and asking customers to pay extra on top of the food and the $10+ delivery charge…
Given their compensation model, all I can say is that if you are not willing to tip, and/or you are not willing to tip ahead of time, you absolutely should not use the service at all.
Practically nobody does uber as their main job, they do it because they either want/need extra money, or are struggling to survive at all. I know uberers, none of them would choose the job, but they can’t find other work. There’s an intentional lack of employment, in my country at least, to keep the workers moving forward; “Do for us, or end up like those people”.
If your business requires you to exploit your workers in order to make a profit, then your business doesn’t deserve to exist. Making excuses for the exploiters changes nothing.
If you think tipping, a current necessity to ensure proper pay, is not something you should be doing why don’t you stop using food services which expect tipping?
They won’t stop underpaying because you don’t tip they’ll just blame the worker. The one who can’t quit, because there’s not alot of work around, and they need food for survival
I’m all for ending tipping culture. And a tip before service may not be a tip, but as long as this is how it’s set up, it’s the current way we must do things.
Just like if you want someone to do some handy work for you, you can go on Craigslist and say “need someone to do ‘x’. Will pay $150” and workers who search on there for jobs will decide whether or not it’s worth it for them to do the job. This job just so happens to be giving you food or a ride.
Right, and if a company can’t pay their workers enough, then workers are not obligated to work there. It is not my responsibility to ensure your workers are paid fairly, regardless of how things are currently set up.
In the UK (and a lot of Europe) tipping is completely optional. We only tip for exceptional service or if we’ve made the server’s life difficult. It’s an optional extra for the server.
At this point, it’s so endemic, in the US, that it likely needs to be fixed from the governmental level, but that doesn’t make it something that can’t be complained about.
American workers rights really scare me. Tipping being allowed to subsidise wages is awful, but so is the safety legislation, and child labour laws. We have issues in the UK obviously, but they’re relatively minor in comparison.
It’s only expected because consumers with a similar mentality keep supplying the bandaids to the business. That, and poor local and federal regulation.
Personally I tip 20% or more at most Restaurants. I draw the line at tipping before service as well. They aren’t even pretending anymore that it’s about service.
That said, I don’t use any Gig economy service; I don’t believe in their business models at all, and part of what you are saying is why. Workers shouldn’t be taking on the burden, companies should.
I do tip at some pre-service places that I’m a regular at, but I’ve run into some pretty ridiculous stores asking for tips where nothing warrants it. I try to be fair, but it is getting ridiculous.
One of the most ridiculous tipping related thing happened a couple of weeks ago. I was ordering some pantry items from an online store that shipped to me (shipping fee was separate, based on how much is purchased). They had a vinegar that I couldn’t find locally or online elsewhere, and since they are a small family business, I decided to order a few other things to support them even though all their prices were a bit higher than other places. When checking out, they asked for a 20-25% tip to help support their small family business. That just made me mad. Never going to shop from them again.
take it up with the state you elected. If they allow you to work for a wage that’s not enough to live on, and you don’t get a different job - that’s a you problem not a customer problem.
It’s a poverty trap. Your choice often isn’t “get another job” or stay there. It’s do this job, and survive another month, or quit and be not be able to afford basic necessities (like rent, or food). Unfortunately, the job can leave you too mentally and/or physically exhausted to properly hunt or reskill for another job. It’s a catch 22 situation.
Interestingly, COVID actually helped a lot of people on that front. The government income support, and enforced rest let people stop, breathe and think. Many then went on to do exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately there’s always more to be drawn into the trap.
This doesn’t justify flaming customers because we won’t pay them extra for doing their job. Does it suck for them? Maybe. Do I work hard for my money and don’t want to hand it our to them? Yes.
Dashers are not employees. There is no employer obligating a Dasher to serve the business’s customers.
A waitress is an employee. Her employer can demand that she serve a particular customer. She can be fired for refusing to serve you.
A Dasher is not an employee. DoorDash cannot fire a Dasher for refusing to accept an order. The Dasher is perfectly free to decline your offer for any reason they want.
The only information the Dasher is given is the location of the pickup, the location of the dropoff, and how much you are willing to pay for the trip. From that information, the Dasher has to decide whether to take the offer, or decline.
When your offer is so shitty that it would cost more to fulfill it than you’re offering the Dasher is absolutely justified in flaming you to a crisp.
The point of tipping (to the tipper) is to show appreciation for the quality of service you received. If service is shit, you don’t get tipped as much.
Tipping before you get the service means quality of service plays no part in the transaction.
There is a base level of pay. That doesn’t mean you get to hate the poor person who is stuck serving you. You should appreciate what others do for you.
Please tip your plumber, i mean you do appreciate their work dont you?
15% would be fair wouldnt it?
You should tip anyone or dont you appreciate what they do for you? What? You already paid them? But you didnt yet appreciate them yet! How could you!
My sons a plumber and he just got $100 tip for doing a job, but it was right before Christmas and the client was really rich. I don’t condone tipping but if I do tip it’s usually in cash
Drivers can’t see the tip, but they are given an estimated payout (of the number presented is different from the estimate, it’ll always pay higher than the estimate) for each order.
If this wasn’t the case, there wouldn’t be any drivers. Drivers are contractors and DoorDash bids orders out until someone accepts it. No contractor in their right mind will accept a job not knowing how much it’ll pay.
If tipping weren’t allowed until after delivery, most people wouldn’t tip. You have the option to raise or lower your tip already, but have you ever gone in there and changed your tip after you received your order? Most people don’t. In the 6 or so months I was delivering, I only had one tip adjusted.
I did once because the driver completely ignored my delivery instructions and I called to cancel the tip. They refunded it immediately.
Our building has a problem with theft, which I noted in my instructions, and they left the order in the lobby despite my clear warning to the contrary.
No fuck you. I’m not gonna sit around taking all the shitty orders that just ruin my car and waste my time for $3 just because you think I should have a gambling problem for your benefit.
Also they already tried that. Everyone quit except the dependent people who just got ruined.
In your other comments you complain about being in debt, with a broken car, because of the job. Sounds like you’ve got it figured out and are definitely on top in the situation, I’ll leave you to it.
Drivers shouldn’t be allowed to see the tip amount prior to delivery completion. That, or tipping shouldn’t be allowed until after completion. I hate this more recent model of tipping before receiving service. Because as you said, it’s a bid for service, not an acknowledgement of good service.
Flip it around - why would you work a job, any job, where you don’t know your pay until after the work is done?
“Tipping” is rich-people speak for shifting the expense (and blame) to the customer.
They already know the pay. If the pay isn’t enough without the tip, then maybe they should consider getting a different job.
You realize that gig economy is the neoliberal slang for a poverty class work, but without the rights of workers, right?
So you’re criticizing people who are forced by the system in which we live, to be ordered around by a fucking algorithm, and then take abuse from people who have enough money to NOT work in the gig economy, but no where near enough to actually own the servant class they get off on abusing.
You realize that the gig economy is not my responsibility, right? I’m not criticizing the workers for being underpaid. I’m criticizing the exploiters for underpaying their workers. If you can’t pay your workers enough, that is not my fault. You are not entitled to exploit anyone for your personal gain.
Study: When questioned about continuing to work for poverty wages, gig workers across the nation respond with resounding “guess I just didn’t think about it because I’m so goddamned stupid” ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ .
The first statement was meant as in these delivery services don’t deserve to keep their workers. They should instead look for a better job that will pay them properly. But that’s what these delivery services do…prey on the vulnerable that are desperate which is why there should be laws protecting them.
I agree with you completely but at the same time I have disdain for gig workers because they all seem to operate under an entirely different set of traffic laws and social conventions. At least where I live.
Wdym by social conventions?
I see them acting rudely to restaurant staff and grocery store staff often.
The pay is about $2 per order, regardless of mileage. Dashers can typically complete 2-3 orders per hour, and pay for their own fuel. The base pay is absolutely not worth it.
They are paid approximately $4 to $6 per hour, and yet some people are still defending the practice and asking customers to pay extra on top of the food and the $10+ delivery charge…
Given their compensation model, all I can say is that if you are not willing to tip, and/or you are not willing to tip ahead of time, you absolutely should not use the service at all.
And I don’t, specifically for that exact reason.
Good.
Now, fuck off.
Practically nobody does uber as their main job, they do it because they either want/need extra money, or are struggling to survive at all. I know uberers, none of them would choose the job, but they can’t find other work. There’s an intentional lack of employment, in my country at least, to keep the workers moving forward; “Do for us, or end up like those people”.
If your business requires you to exploit your workers in order to make a profit, then your business doesn’t deserve to exist. Making excuses for the exploiters changes nothing.
If you think tipping, a current necessity to ensure proper pay, is not something you should be doing why don’t you stop using food services which expect tipping?
They won’t stop underpaying because you don’t tip they’ll just blame the worker. The one who can’t quit, because there’s not alot of work around, and they need food for survival
A tip before service is not a tip. It’s coercion. Maybe we should consider adding regulation to this entire industry to ensure fair pay.
I’m all for ending tipping culture. And a tip before service may not be a tip, but as long as this is how it’s set up, it’s the current way we must do things.
Just like if you want someone to do some handy work for you, you can go on Craigslist and say “need someone to do ‘x’. Will pay $150” and workers who search on there for jobs will decide whether or not it’s worth it for them to do the job. This job just so happens to be giving you food or a ride.
Right, and if a company can’t pay their workers enough, then workers are not obligated to work there. It is not my responsibility to ensure your workers are paid fairly, regardless of how things are currently set up.
In the UK (and a lot of Europe) tipping is completely optional. We only tip for exceptional service or if we’ve made the server’s life difficult. It’s an optional extra for the server.
At this point, it’s so endemic, in the US, that it likely needs to be fixed from the governmental level, but that doesn’t make it something that can’t be complained about.
American workers rights really scare me. Tipping being allowed to subsidise wages is awful, but so is the safety legislation, and child labour laws. We have issues in the UK obviously, but they’re relatively minor in comparison.
It’s only expected because consumers with a similar mentality keep supplying the bandaids to the business. That, and poor local and federal regulation.
Personally I tip 20% or more at most Restaurants. I draw the line at tipping before service as well. They aren’t even pretending anymore that it’s about service.
That said, I don’t use any Gig economy service; I don’t believe in their business models at all, and part of what you are saying is why. Workers shouldn’t be taking on the burden, companies should.
I do tip at some pre-service places that I’m a regular at, but I’ve run into some pretty ridiculous stores asking for tips where nothing warrants it. I try to be fair, but it is getting ridiculous.
One of the most ridiculous tipping related thing happened a couple of weeks ago. I was ordering some pantry items from an online store that shipped to me (shipping fee was separate, based on how much is purchased). They had a vinegar that I couldn’t find locally or online elsewhere, and since they are a small family business, I decided to order a few other things to support them even though all their prices were a bit higher than other places. When checking out, they asked for a 20-25% tip to help support their small family business. That just made me mad. Never going to shop from them again.
Yes that’s completely ridiculous. You’re helping their small business by shopping there in the first place.
take it up with the state you elected. If they allow you to work for a wage that’s not enough to live on, and you don’t get a different job - that’s a you problem not a customer problem.
It’s a poverty trap. Your choice often isn’t “get another job” or stay there. It’s do this job, and survive another month, or quit and be not be able to afford basic necessities (like rent, or food). Unfortunately, the job can leave you too mentally and/or physically exhausted to properly hunt or reskill for another job. It’s a catch 22 situation.
Interestingly, COVID actually helped a lot of people on that front. The government income support, and enforced rest let people stop, breathe and think. Many then went on to do exactly what you suggested. Unfortunately there’s always more to be drawn into the trap.
This doesn’t justify flaming customers because we won’t pay them extra for doing their job. Does it suck for them? Maybe. Do I work hard for my money and don’t want to hand it our to them? Yes.
Dashers are not employees. There is no employer obligating a Dasher to serve the business’s customers.
A waitress is an employee. Her employer can demand that she serve a particular customer. She can be fired for refusing to serve you.
A Dasher is not an employee. DoorDash cannot fire a Dasher for refusing to accept an order. The Dasher is perfectly free to decline your offer for any reason they want.
The only information the Dasher is given is the location of the pickup, the location of the dropoff, and how much you are willing to pay for the trip. From that information, the Dasher has to decide whether to take the offer, or decline.
When your offer is so shitty that it would cost more to fulfill it than you’re offering the Dasher is absolutely justified in flaming you to a crisp.
Noone said dashers has to accept every order regardless of the tip. If they accept it though, they need to stfu.
There’s nothing to flip, gratuity and wages should be separate things. And minimum, standard living wages should be paid.
The point of tipping (to the tipper) is to show appreciation for the quality of service you received. If service is shit, you don’t get tipped as much.
Tipping before you get the service means quality of service plays no part in the transaction.
America’s view that tipping is normal needs to change.
How about an adequate wage instead, like the rest of the developed world?
Well no, tipping is how you show your appreciation for a service. You are bring selfish if you don’t at least tip a minimal amount.
A reasonable required base level of pay for service is necessary before a tip is showing appreciation.
There is a base level of pay. That doesn’t mean you get to hate the poor person who is stuck serving you. You should appreciate what others do for you.
Where did you get the idea that wanting reasonable wages before tips means I hate servers?
Learn to read.
Please tip your plumber, i mean you do appreciate their work dont you?
15% would be fair wouldnt it?
You should tip anyone or dont you appreciate what they do for you? What? You already paid them? But you didnt yet appreciate them yet! How could you!
The way this comment section is going I’d expect them to beet the plummer.
My sons a plumber and he just got $100 tip for doing a job, but it was right before Christmas and the client was really rich. I don’t condone tipping but if I do tip it’s usually in cash
Drivers can’t see the tip, but they are given an estimated payout (of the number presented is different from the estimate, it’ll always pay higher than the estimate) for each order.
If this wasn’t the case, there wouldn’t be any drivers. Drivers are contractors and DoorDash bids orders out until someone accepts it. No contractor in their right mind will accept a job not knowing how much it’ll pay.
If tipping weren’t allowed until after delivery, most people wouldn’t tip. You have the option to raise or lower your tip already, but have you ever gone in there and changed your tip after you received your order? Most people don’t. In the 6 or so months I was delivering, I only had one tip adjusted.
Do you get your tip back too if the driver steals your food? Here we have Rappi that also asks for tip before the delivery so I never gave it out.
I did once because the driver completely ignored my delivery instructions and I called to cancel the tip. They refunded it immediately.
Our building has a problem with theft, which I noted in my instructions, and they left the order in the lobby despite my clear warning to the contrary.
Yes you do.
I’ve tipped a ton and gotten very cold food numerous times. I absolutely agree, and really hate this model.
No fuck you. I’m not gonna sit around taking all the shitty orders that just ruin my car and waste my time for $3 just because you think I should have a gambling problem for your benefit.
Also they already tried that. Everyone quit except the dependent people who just got ruined.
Then you’re part of the problem, I guess.
No, the problem is that you want what you won’t pay for. Nobody else is gonna have a problem not giving it to you. Your problem is your own.
You aren’t entitled to gratuity, despite seeming like a very entitled person. You present yourself like a charity case.
I’ve got plenty of customers who pay my price. It’s not a matter of entitlement. You want a bootstrapped market. I take the free market.
In your other comments you complain about being in debt, with a broken car, because of the job. Sounds like you’ve got it figured out and are definitely on top in the situation, I’ll leave you to it.
Car is broken because Doordash got bad when they hid tips. I’m a QA now.
Edit: also because it’s a mini Cooper. Good on gas, bad for longevity.