Capitalism’s ability to provide moral and ideological cover for the self-commodification of every aspect of humanity is incredible. 100 years ago you’d have to force women to do this, today some are not just willing to do it, but see it as a noble cause and contribution for the war machine of empire.
I love how of all the things she could do to provide support for an army, she skipped over cooking and first aid and her brain went straight to being a prostitute
This entire thread smacks of weirdly sexist brainworms to me
I’m not even talking about this because I’m believe in that “feminism is only about individual choice!” bs, but because it’s weird to imply that wanting to be a prostitute instead of a medic or a cook is some kind of mental degradation, and all three of those things being assumed as the only roles a woman would play in a war is just gross
and all three of those things being assumed as the only roles a woman would play in a war is just gross
??? Cooking and first aid are normal things for volunteers to do, male or female, it’s not that she’s a woman, but women seem to mostly have the good sense to not fly halfway around the world to get blown up as soldiers like some functionally-suicidal men did, even though there are certainly women on both sides of the war in combat roles.
There are some other normal volunteer roles, e.g. sanitation is very important, but you’d surely say the same thing if people were commenting on her not pursuing that (“oh! so women should be cleaners?”). Anything beyond that, like being a mechanic or nurse or something, requires a serious level of training
but because it’s weird to imply that wanting to be a prostitute instead of a medic or a cook is some kind of mental degradation
…Is it? I do not think it is a stretch to say that the despersonalization of a human being into a sexual object is indeed pretty degrading.
and all three of those things being assumed as the only roles a woman would play in a war is just gross
Helping the wounded and the starved are the main tasks that volunteering organizations play in any warzone, be it either men or women. It is the kind of thing one volunteers for unless they are in the very small minority of people who are either dense enough or who have enough of a death wish to go there to fight and get blown up by an Iskander missile (RIP Reddit battalion).
…Is it? I do not think it is a stretch to say that the despersonalization of a human being into a sexual object is indeed pretty degrading.
I mean, yeah, wanting to have sex is a pretty normal desire for a lot of people, so it’s not a surprise that some people would choose to do so professionally. There are definitely systemic issues at play that coerce people into becoming prostitutes, which makes the industry very bad altogether, but if removed from that context it’s pretty reasonable (and neither of the comments in the chain really seemed to have been complaining about the context)
but if removed from that context it’s pretty reasonable
Good grief. I am sorry, but that stances like this one come from the mouths of comrades is the reason why I always object when a communism study guide for beginners does not include texts from Alexandra Kollontai.
Sex under coercion is rape. Work under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie is done by proletarians under economic coercion as they have to work to be able to fulfill their basic needs. Therefore, sex as a means of living, or in other words, prostitution, is rape.
You have four options at this point: you can either accept this fact and move on; you can deny that work under a bourgeois dictatorship functions by placing working class people under economic coercion, a point at which you should consider why call yourself a communist anymore; or you could either deny that sex under coercion is rape or, heavens forbid it, that rape is acceptable under any economic system, both actions that would get yourself immediately kicked from any minimally respectable communist party. The choice is yours.
I mean… that’s why I said “removed from context”. All of this is context, context that was missing from previous comments (which read more like “how dare this woman not be traditional” to me). I agree that prostitution is coercive and wrong in every current implementation.
context that was missing from previous comments (which read more like “how dare this woman not be traditional” to me)
We are in a communist space. You have plenty context to work with: the last thing you have to expect of a critique of prostitution in a place like this is to be done from a point of view of religious puritanism and not from a perspective of principled marxist feminism, which is where @KommandoGZD 's comment and those following them came from.
The bourgeois state promotes the idea that all critiques to the existence of prostitution itself comes from conservative or reactionary perspectives. You are not immune to propaganda: before attempting to write a critique basing on the gut feeling that you get from reading something, try to read what is it that it is actually being said.
I agree that prostitution is coercive and wrong in every current implementation.
Current or otherwise. Prostitution is not defensible under socialism or communism either, and to know why I once again redirect you to Kollontai. I was writing here the bullet points of the text, but I have decided not to as no summary can substitute the proper reading of an original theory text.
As it says in the text, and as it was said in the first All-Russian Congress of Working Women: “A woman of the Soviet labour republic is a free citizen with equal rights, and cannot and must not be the object of buying and selling", and to this day we should still strive to build a proletarian society where this remains true.
“If we just remove the context of the largest human trafficking disaster Europe has seen in 30 years, it makes sense to want to be a prostitute in Ukraine!” Ukraine is literally the worst place on the continent to be doing that right now, not that it’s really the best place to do anything other than die.
Capitalism’s ability to provide moral and ideological cover for the self-commodification of every aspect of humanity is incredible. 100 years ago you’d have to force women to do this, today some are not just willing to do it, but see it as a noble cause and contribution for the war machine of empire.
I love how of all the things she could do to provide support for an army, she skipped over cooking and first aid and her brain went straight to being a prostitute
The absolute effect of liberalism on women’s perception of themselves and their role in the world
This entire thread smacks of weirdly sexist brainworms to me
I’m not even talking about this because I’m believe in that “feminism is only about individual choice!” bs, but because it’s weird to imply that wanting to be a prostitute instead of a medic or a cook is some kind of mental degradation, and all three of those things being assumed as the only roles a woman would play in a war is just gross
You generally have a point but
??? Cooking and first aid are normal things for volunteers to do, male or female, it’s not that she’s a woman, but women seem to mostly have the good sense to not fly halfway around the world to get blown up as soldiers like some functionally-suicidal men did, even though there are certainly women on both sides of the war in combat roles.
There are some other normal volunteer roles, e.g. sanitation is very important, but you’d surely say the same thing if people were commenting on her not pursuing that (“oh! so women should be cleaners?”). Anything beyond that, like being a mechanic or nurse or something, requires a serious level of training
…Is it? I do not think it is a stretch to say that the despersonalization of a human being into a sexual object is indeed pretty degrading.
Helping the wounded and the starved are the main tasks that volunteering organizations play in any warzone, be it either men or women. It is the kind of thing one volunteers for unless they are in the very small minority of people who are either dense enough or who have enough of a death wish to go there to fight and get blown up by an Iskander missile (RIP Reddit battalion).
I mean, yeah, wanting to have sex is a pretty normal desire for a lot of people, so it’s not a surprise that some people would choose to do so professionally. There are definitely systemic issues at play that coerce people into becoming prostitutes, which makes the industry very bad altogether, but if removed from that context it’s pretty reasonable (and neither of the comments in the chain really seemed to have been complaining about the context)
Good grief. I am sorry, but that stances like this one come from the mouths of comrades is the reason why I always object when a communism study guide for beginners does not include texts from Alexandra Kollontai.
Sex under coercion is rape. Work under the dictatorship of the bourgeoisie is done by proletarians under economic coercion as they have to work to be able to fulfill their basic needs. Therefore, sex as a means of living, or in other words, prostitution, is rape.
You have four options at this point: you can either accept this fact and move on; you can deny that work under a bourgeois dictatorship functions by placing working class people under economic coercion, a point at which you should consider why call yourself a communist anymore; or you could either deny that sex under coercion is rape or, heavens forbid it, that rape is acceptable under any economic system, both actions that would get yourself immediately kicked from any minimally respectable communist party. The choice is yours.
I mean… that’s why I said “removed from context”. All of this is context, context that was missing from previous comments (which read more like “how dare this woman not be traditional” to me). I agree that prostitution is coercive and wrong in every current implementation.
We are in a communist space. You have plenty context to work with: the last thing you have to expect of a critique of prostitution in a place like this is to be done from a point of view of religious puritanism and not from a perspective of principled marxist feminism, which is where @KommandoGZD 's comment and those following them came from.
The bourgeois state promotes the idea that all critiques to the existence of prostitution itself comes from conservative or reactionary perspectives. You are not immune to propaganda: before attempting to write a critique basing on the gut feeling that you get from reading something, try to read what is it that it is actually being said.
Current or otherwise. Prostitution is not defensible under socialism or communism either, and to know why I once again redirect you to Kollontai. I was writing here the bullet points of the text, but I have decided not to as no summary can substitute the proper reading of an original theory text.
As it says in the text, and as it was said in the first All-Russian Congress of Working Women: “A woman of the Soviet labour republic is a free citizen with equal rights, and cannot and must not be the object of buying and selling", and to this day we should still strive to build a proletarian society where this remains true.
“If we just remove the context of the largest human trafficking disaster Europe has seen in 30 years, it makes sense to want to be a prostitute in Ukraine!” Ukraine is literally the worst place on the continent to be doing that right now, not that it’s really the best place to do anything other than die.
Pretty reasonable? So you will just ignore the fact it’s inherently about the objectification of women?
Secondly, it’s still a mental degradation compared to cooking and first aid regardless of if it’s “okay”
Those require actual skill and effort. Sending nudes online does not