Final Edit: I have decided to take a break from here for undecided time. I might come back when sure of myself. Limited activity at main instance.
Edit: I am replying, so please refer to them to get an idea of my worldview.
Context: https://lemmygrad.ml/post/650259 and these removed comments of mine, before Forte temp banned me
a screenshot of my comments
Before I start off, I want to tell that it is true that I am a cis het male human that holds monogamist views with the mildest of traditional takes. It is also true that despite never having had a real mother or a girlfriend in my life, I never became an incel. My mindset at the core is unapologetically survivalist, independent and masculine. I have also been chivalrous with women, and have been inclusive of the non binary communities. Some people will try to portray this as me never getting female love in life and all kinds of assumption based crap, which I can counter with years of selfless privacy community work.
I want to know what is so misogynistic about:
- a woman having multiple boyfriends and being a social player, which is very common today in the dating scene
- traditional views like monogamy instead of promiscuity are better
- social code being different for men and women
- women often dating for free food
- Western feminism not being a true representation of feminism, and how much it currently harms mainly men, and creating polarisation between both sexes
- psychology of dominance and submission in relationships factoring into the stability of any long term relationships, including marriage
Is it not deceitful to deny these patterns exist, and to just call someone misogynistic and shut down the conversation? Or have I misunderstood what Lemmygrad means for these kinds of conversations?
When did this place become so lib, that people were straight up told to “change your ways before you end up ruining a poor girl’s life”, or how “using ‘male’ and ‘female’ to refer to men and women as if they’re animals” is a terminology that radical feminists would otherwise get excused for? What are these assumed ideas I have that are so batshit crazy, compared to the kinds of values that hardcore masculinity gurus, Tate fans, incels/femcels hold? And what is the defined threshold expected for this place to accommodate people?
I hope I do not see a “404:site_ban” before I get to engage and get answers on this, and have a decent conversation. I am not threatening. I merely want a dialogue.
Regarding polygamy, there is a study that many people will not like. I do not think it is healthy, and just because something has been done eternally, does not mean it is correct to continue doing. Is that not what breaking down the medieval ideas, that still exist in society as it is, all about?
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/fulfillment-at-any-age/201304/the-long-term-psychological-effects-of-having-multiple-sex
I will try to skim through that literature, thanks for the rec.
Did you not even read that article? First of all, all the participants are from one country, which in itself limits its usefulness. Secondly, there is a huge issue with correlation/causation, is it that people who engage in casual sex might engage in more drinking/drugs?
Most importantly, even if we disregard everything above, it would prove nothing. It just says that people who have lots of sex also drink/use drugs more. It even mentions it in the article itself, the likely reason why women are more affected is due to the societal pressures.
We live in a society that is very hostile to polygamy. Which is probably the reason most people would find negative consequences for engaging in it. This will be the same for any people that are engaging in something considered “weird”.
Why is one country demographic so limiting in this case, when USA’s per capita PPP is extremely high? I would instead argue USA’s cultural westernisation effect carries over to almost all countries sufficiently for this study to be valuable.
You think alcohol and drug abuse leads to a healthy life? It is a sign of deep internal instability. Why can you not see it comes down to these people hating the concept of committing to a partner, using each other like meat, thus revealing personality issues and internalised horrible ideas of how a society should be?
First of all it is not from the USA but from New Zealand. I am not saying that a study that is done on one country cannot provide some useful insight, but you should be aware of that, especially in studies like this. Societal norms are widely different across the world, so trying to argue for something like this should be done from research across the world.
No, and I never claimed to. Personally, I really don’t like both alcohol and drug use. But I certainly wouldn’t make such sweeping statements as.
Alcohol use in particular is highly culturally dependent. For example, my country is one of the highest alcohol consumers per capita, but we are a fairly happy country (at least as much as possible in this capitalist hellhole).
Btw, I just looked at the original study that that article is based on. It only concerned itself with cannabis and alcohol, and it didn’t differentiate between those two. So again, not really a good source. Overall, I wouldn’t base your opinion on something on one random article, especially when it just tries to summarize a paper. Try to at least read the original paper.
Source? I could think of many reasons why. People don’t know what they like, so they want to explore both romantically and sexually. People evolve and change over time, and sometimes the partner they though are perfect actually wasn’t. Or there are people that don’t mind that their partners are having sex with other people. There are so many explanations of why someone would want to have sex with multiple partners, I really don’t see why you would come to such a conclusion.
This very first point of the article is the exact opposite of everything you’re trying to say here.
I never said it was necessarily depression. Substance abuse and alcohol abuse clearly is shown there. The concept of pair bonding is true to an extent, depending on how loyal people are. People engaging in casual sex are not loyal or committing people.
I forgot to supplement this with another study, a mistake I will correct now.
https://web.archive.org/web/20220930172620/https://www.huffpost.com/entry/more-sexual-partners-unhappy-marriage_n_5698440
And in the same breath, I would recommend this one as well. https://web.archive.org/web/20220124003810/https://ifstudies.org/blog/counterintuitive-trends-in-the-link-between-premarital-sex-and-marital-stability/
The default assumption of those studies you linked, is that monogamous marriage is good, and multiple partners bad. You’re linking studies from patriarchal viewpoints which already share your own status-quo assumptions.
Again, monogamy is not the norm of history, and only arose with class society. You haven’t done the reading so you haven’t learned this yet.
Ignorance is bliss.
I think this has got more to do with sexually frustrated men and women carrying out their dark thoughts, breaking down, healing themselves to become better men and women, ending up becoming more satisfied, since at this point they are over their internal frustration and possibly traumatic issues. Sexual act does serve as a venting outlet.
I am not going to analyze both of these the same way as your first source, but, firstly, the second one is not even a paper, just a bunch of graphs with no methodology etc. Secondly, I would look at where are your sources coming from. Both of these are not scientific institutions and both of these are basically from the same source, which is conservative “think tank”.
If you want someone who explains how these statistics are often misleading, I would look at this video. It basically deals with the exact same arguments from Lauren Southern.
Please don’t use random articles as sources for such statements. At least use something that is based on some real research, even though it is often flawed.