Just going to preface this by saying yes please vote for Biden. If nothing else he is not openly fascist and he will not himself actively work to forward queer genocide and the removal of women’s rights. Please vote for him. If you’re not going to take any measures to change this system and have resigned yourself to existing within it, do one good thing for women and minorities.
If you think it’s fine for a totalitarian fascist state to become established and to mass murder queer people, don’t even fucking bother responding to me. If you’re saying “don’t vote and also don’t revolutionize. Just let trans people and women fucking die” then fuck off. You’re not even worth engaging with. If fascism takes over and my friends, my family, my loved ones and my community are mass murdered I’ll remember how you watched it happen and did literally nothing. Our blood will be on your hands.
I’m not engaging further in this thread.
It’s amazing how passive and tolerant the working class has become of the state. If half the energy that was devoted to arguing about why the system sucks but can’t be changed was instead put into organizing and committing to revolutionary action… Actual real-world change might have already happened.
Like, what’s the line for people? They took away women’s bodily autonomy. What about if they took away women’s right to work? What if they did away with the 40-hour work week? What if they made it so only land owning whites could vote again? Like, where is the line that people will respond by actually trying to change the system?
“The system is broken, but I’m not here to talk about why we should materially do anything to change that” like what kind of argument is that? Are you just going to watch as fascism literally takes over and then try and revolutionize? If Trump wins, are you then going to try and change the system? After the guy who’s definitely a-ok using the military on civilians takes over?
Is this just what it’s going to be forever? Forever arguing for the lesser of two evils, the person who will still cause human suffering but not as much as the other guy? Why are so many people seemingly resigned to this status quo? “It sucks but here we are,” like what?? Even when revolutionary thought is put forward, people say that it would never work, as though no revolution in history has ever worked or achieved any of its aims. Which is just wrong. Neo liberal propaganda has got yall so bad that you genuinely believe that Western capitalist democracy is the only possible way for society to exist and that any and all attempts to change it are impossible.
Biden literally signed into law a resolution that took away the ability of railworkers to strike. This is one of the most anti-union and anti-worker moves from the legislative and executive branches I have ever seen in my entire life.
My choice is between that disgusting sack of shit, and an even worse more putrified fascist disgusting sack of shit scumbag pondscum asshole.
I will not be voting for either, and instead will be selecting the candidate available to me on the ticket most closely matching my priorities and convictions. Either way, the electoral college will look at my vote and immediately trash can it to put the true vote to one of these bought and paid for pricks. Happy fucking democracy, what a goddamn joke.
I think that strike would have caused economic shortages and disruptions that would have been blamed on Biden while conservatives took advantage to blame both unions and democrats.
There is about a zero percent change Americans are organized or pro-labor enough that they would have supported that strike once it impacted prices and product availability.
forget the politicians blame game, they are doing just that right now, despite strikes or lack thereof. all for show, fuck them.
the important part are the worker rights we could have permanently earned, just like our right to the 8hr workday back then.
i dont care if one side gets to get to power over another as long as we have the worker power to bend them to our will. you seem worried about republicans but it ended up being democrat biden who illegalized strikes for an entire industry. this is really bad in the medium to long run.
about having the people agreeing with it, most people supported it, and im doing my part right now in talking to the ones seemingly on the fence.
This precisely. Anyone who is arguing otherwise is being intentionally misleading. Republicans were practically salivating at the opportunity to attack Biden on economic issues.
Maybe there’s a reason why leftists hate democracy - because they are too politically naive for it.
Republicans were practically salivating at the opportunity to attack Biden on economic issues.
Well, thank God we avoided that outcome! As long as the Dems just cater to what Republicans want, we can ensure that Republicans won’t resort to baseless accusations.
I don’t like Biden either, he’s done things that offend me too. But it doesn’t matter. Assuming Biden or Trump will win the general, then the only rational move is to pick one of them. Your vote can only make the difference between 1st and 2nd. You can’t make the 3rd place candidate jump to first, and you certainly can’t cause the winner to be nobody.
If you wanna vote for a candidate who matches your priorities and convictions, the time for that is the primary stage. The general is too late for that. In fact, if Trump wins that’ll make it even harder for a more liberal candidate to win the next primary, because (as happened after 2016) a Trump victory will scare democratic voters into thinking they need to move to the center to stop the far-right.
I know, American democracy is a big disgusting knot that makes you do things that feel dirty. But just pretend it’s a game, because that’s what it is. If you wanna win in the end, that means on each turn you move towards the least bad outcome.
That strawman argument is at the level of “I voted for a pigeon why isn’t he president”.
We have email evidence in 2016 of a very popular primary candidate (Sanders) being plotted against by an organisation that is supposed to uphold democracy.
A similar occurrence happened in 2020 when Sanders was up against Biden. Stalking horse candidates were used to soak up votes which were then pledged to Biden. He had no support without those votes.
Saying that people have the option to choose a candidate at the primary stage is demonstrably false.
And we have evidence that Sanders lost by 8M votes. Called an election. Move on. Or I guess keep denying the agency of millions of voters because your first baby crush candidate lost.
Maybe if you vote for Biden he’ll be unable to continue in office for whatever reason (will leave to your imagination) and then Kamala Harris takes over. She is markedly more left wing than he is, so there is a possibility you’ll get an outcome you prefer.
Edit: should clarify that I also don’t have a horse in this race since I’m not from the states
She is markedly more left wing than he is, so there is a possibility you’ll get an outcome you prefer.
This is the narrative that mass media outlets like to tell and retell but I don’t know any US leftists that think Kamala Harris is even remotely leftwing. Literally none.
Yes she probably isn’t as awful on Israel as Biden is, but that isn’t actually saying anything at this point really, Biden is an utter catastrophe on the Palestinian genocide and it very well might lose him the election over it.
When she was chosen, it felt like a purposeful insult, like there couldn’t have been a worse candidate. It felt like an appeal to the right who were mad at the anti-police protesting. We do not like her.
As a woman of color. That was pretty much it. This made Biden appear more progressive to those on the left. Her being a former cop made it more palatable to those on the right side of the party.
I think people just don’t give a shit. I certainly don’t, I want to work as little as possible and enjoy my life as much as I can before the world collapses. Hell half the time I can’t decide if living is still worth it yet I slog on hoping for another day where I get to enjoy something entertaining on twitch or a new video game to play.
I think people just don’t give a shit. I certainly don’t, I want to work as little as possible and enjoy my life as much as I can before the world collapses. Hell half the time I can’t decide if living is still worth it yet I slog on hoping for another day where I get to enjoy something entertaining on twitch or a new video game to play.
You are burnt out and ground down, that is different than not giving a shit. Nobody can judge you for being burnt out, but don’t let the fact that you don’t have the capacity to care right now fool you into believing it is anything other than an indicator that you are burnt out and ground down.
I agree
But at the same time where are we starting
Like I sure as hell don’t have the guts to start a revolution
I’ll join one ig
But getting it started is the hardest part
Are you really worried Democrats will start voting for Trump now or something? I’m so confused why these memes even get upvoted. It is like posting memes saying that the earth is round. Do we really need daily reminders that the world is round? If someone thinks it is flat… is a meme going to change their opinion?
Don’t vote for any criminal with blood on his hands. Don’t vote for any open or crypto fascist. The best thing you can do for men, women, and minorities all over the world is to not support any corrupted politicians.
There’s a genocide happening right now with the support of USA government where thousands of kids already die and keep getting murdered as we speak.
We allow and are complicit in these murders for every day we stand by and let our leaders do the murdering. If another attack happens on US citizens a la 9/11 then I will not be shocked or surprised, we have it coming. It’s literally a sake of national security that we remove our current leadership from power, otherwise we’re literally inviting a retaliation with blindfolds on.
By what moral framework and reasoning within that framework are you coming to the conclusion that citizens who vote for one candidate over another are morally responsible for every individual act of that leader? I’m quite familiar with most of them, and none support that conclusion.
“If you want democracy you have to be a player.” The decision to let our leaders commit immoral acts is still a decision, and one many of us make daily. Especially when they go around killing other people, if we REALLY didn’t want them to do that we would make sure they wouldn’t, but alas, they do because we’ve given them the keys to power to do so. You could then argue “They don’t represent us” which would mean we don’t have democracy, which I argue to be the case, only because people haven’t been playing their position to have it. We willingly participate in a society that gives power to murderers, which says everything about our society. This is what is being told to us while killing our people in retaliation, maybe we should start listening? Or maybe we care so little about our own victims that we want to create more.
Can you not admit though that it is a bad look for Democrats when they push a pro-genocide candidate and act like there are no better options to defeat fascism, and then say… you either get what you get or you get total fascism.
Israel is committing the genocide. Biden should change US policy, but he is pressing Israel for a ceasefire. He isn’t Israel and doesn’t set their war agenda, contrary to how fake lefties and useful idiots talk on the internet. In addition to awful, Israel is also being stupid and doing exactly what HAMAS wants imo, its bloodshed turning the world against them understandably. I just don’t understand why people act like Biden is in control or the one to blame…its fucking idiotic.
I am shocked that more people don’t see the campism on this site laid bare with the way “the left” apparently believes that Joe Biden is in charge of the Israeli military.
My “politics” are not supporting any corrupted criminal with blood on his hands. You are protesting against the genocide while literally begging people to vote one of the corrupted politicians behind it.
You seem the one making bad arguments because i never said women or anyone else should accept any injustice. Not voting for scum is not an “electoral protest” it’s how you are supposed to vote, assuming you are in good faith.
What are you, index@sh.itjust.works, planning to do that would prevent a dictatorial fascist state under a totalitarian Trump from coming to fruition?
I’m not supporting or encouraging others to support red or blue party to begin with. Red and blue have been ruling the US for almost a century cycling in power and ruling as one. When people point out that both sides are the same they are also highlighting that regardless of the red/blue side in power government policies barely change. Many of the key people working for the government get recycled regardless of their party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
If you are so worried about the fascist state that could come to fruition you should be worried right now about the fascist state we already have.
Are you equating Weimar Germany with the Nazi state? Do you not see the differences between those 2 things?
Read history, one of the many things that got 1920 fascists consent among the population was advertising themself as a better solution than bolsheviks and communists. Propaganda never changes, you are promoting a corrupted politicians with blood on his hands.
Queer people don’t have the luxury of abstaining.
Thousand of kids in gaza don’t have the chance to live anymore, let alone any luxury.
If you want people to vote there are other parties than red and blue you can promote.
What have you done besides make bad arguments online about why Gazans should just accept that the price for your little “electoral protest” is their lives?
Just going to preface this by saying yes please vote for Biden. If nothing else he is not openly fascist and he will not himself actively work to forward queer genocide and the removal of women’s rights. Please vote for him. If you’re not going to take any measures to change this system and have resigned yourself to existing within it, do one good thing for women and minorities.
If you think it’s fine for a totalitarian fascist state to become established and to mass murder queer people, don’t even fucking bother responding to me. If you’re saying “don’t vote and also don’t revolutionize. Just let trans people and women fucking die” then fuck off. You’re not even worth engaging with. If fascism takes over and my friends, my family, my loved ones and my community are mass murdered I’ll remember how you watched it happen and did literally nothing. Our blood will be on your hands.
I’m not engaging further in this thread.
It’s amazing how passive and tolerant the working class has become of the state. If half the energy that was devoted to arguing about why the system sucks but can’t be changed was instead put into organizing and committing to revolutionary action… Actual real-world change might have already happened.
Like, what’s the line for people? They took away women’s bodily autonomy. What about if they took away women’s right to work? What if they did away with the 40-hour work week? What if they made it so only land owning whites could vote again? Like, where is the line that people will respond by actually trying to change the system?
“The system is broken, but I’m not here to talk about why we should materially do anything to change that” like what kind of argument is that? Are you just going to watch as fascism literally takes over and then try and revolutionize? If Trump wins, are you then going to try and change the system? After the guy who’s definitely a-ok using the military on civilians takes over?
Is this just what it’s going to be forever? Forever arguing for the lesser of two evils, the person who will still cause human suffering but not as much as the other guy? Why are so many people seemingly resigned to this status quo? “It sucks but here we are,” like what?? Even when revolutionary thought is put forward, people say that it would never work, as though no revolution in history has ever worked or achieved any of its aims. Which is just wrong. Neo liberal propaganda has got yall so bad that you genuinely believe that Western capitalist democracy is the only possible way for society to exist and that any and all attempts to change it are impossible.
Biden literally signed into law a resolution that took away the ability of railworkers to strike. This is one of the most anti-union and anti-worker moves from the legislative and executive branches I have ever seen in my entire life.
My choice is between that disgusting sack of shit, and an even worse more putrified fascist disgusting sack of shit scumbag pondscum asshole.
I will not be voting for either, and instead will be selecting the candidate available to me on the ticket most closely matching my priorities and convictions. Either way, the electoral college will look at my vote and immediately trash can it to put the true vote to one of these bought and paid for pricks. Happy fucking democracy, what a goddamn joke.
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that one was horrible. i think that strike could have sparked another workers rights movement to the likes of the one 100ish years ago.
I think that strike would have caused economic shortages and disruptions that would have been blamed on Biden while conservatives took advantage to blame both unions and democrats.
There is about a zero percent change Americans are organized or pro-labor enough that they would have supported that strike once it impacted prices and product availability.
forget the politicians blame game, they are doing just that right now, despite strikes or lack thereof. all for show, fuck them.
the important part are the worker rights we could have permanently earned, just like our right to the 8hr workday back then.
i dont care if one side gets to get to power over another as long as we have the worker power to bend them to our will. you seem worried about republicans but it ended up being democrat biden who illegalized strikes for an entire industry. this is really bad in the medium to long run.
about having the people agreeing with it, most people supported it, and im doing my part right now in talking to the ones seemingly on the fence.
This precisely. Anyone who is arguing otherwise is being intentionally misleading. Republicans were practically salivating at the opportunity to attack Biden on economic issues.
Maybe there’s a reason why leftists hate democracy - because they are too politically naive for it.
Well, thank God we avoided that outcome! As long as the Dems just cater to what Republicans want, we can ensure that Republicans won’t resort to baseless accusations.
The system will not change on the terms of democracy by voting. That’s clear as it can be.
I don’t like Biden either, he’s done things that offend me too. But it doesn’t matter. Assuming Biden or Trump will win the general, then the only rational move is to pick one of them. Your vote can only make the difference between 1st and 2nd. You can’t make the 3rd place candidate jump to first, and you certainly can’t cause the winner to be nobody.
If you wanna vote for a candidate who matches your priorities and convictions, the time for that is the primary stage. The general is too late for that. In fact, if Trump wins that’ll make it even harder for a more liberal candidate to win the next primary, because (as happened after 2016) a Trump victory will scare democratic voters into thinking they need to move to the center to stop the far-right.
I know, American democracy is a big disgusting knot that makes you do things that feel dirty. But just pretend it’s a game, because that’s what it is. If you wanna win in the end, that means on each turn you move towards the least bad outcome.
Incorrect.
DNC attorneys assert that the party has every right to favor one candidate or another, despite their party rules that state otherwise because, after all, they are a private corporation and they can change their rules if they want
I legitimately can’t believe y’all are still doing this. Get new material.
Only when there is better evidence that primaries are fair and relevant.
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/elections/bernie-sanders-camp-fix-was-against-clinton-n817501
This is also why a no-name junior senator from Illinois also failed to beat Clinton in the primary, right? Because the DNC decided she should win?
That strawman argument is at the level of “I voted for a pigeon why isn’t he president”.
We have email evidence in 2016 of a very popular primary candidate (Sanders) being plotted against by an organisation that is supposed to uphold democracy.
A similar occurrence happened in 2020 when Sanders was up against Biden. Stalking horse candidates were used to soak up votes which were then pledged to Biden. He had no support without those votes.
Saying that people have the option to choose a candidate at the primary stage is demonstrably false.
And we have evidence that Sanders lost by 8M votes. Called an election. Move on. Or I guess keep denying the agency of millions of voters because your first baby crush candidate lost.
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Biden prevented economic shortages and then turned around to help that union get the sick leave benefits they wanted anyway.
Calling Biden anti-labor is the fucking joke. Even if you disagree on the strike, he did it to prevent economic chaos, not hurt labor.
Your summary is disingenuous. Economic shortages were to be caused by railroad shareholders, not the unions.
biden prevented and even illegalized a movement that could have been just as big or bigger than the labour movement.
the economic impact gets them precisely where it hurts: rich peoples pockets. thats how you really get what you want, not by begging.
the 30hr workweek, or the fairer healthcare us people want so bad? yes, that big.
Biden didn’t address the actual concerns. The points system is still in place, the “sick leave” has to be scheduled in advance.
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It was pretty atrocious how rail workers were prevented from striking, but they did get the sick days they were fighting for a few months later thanks in part to pressure from Biden: https://ibew.org/media-center/Articles/23Daily/2306/230620_IBEWandPaid
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Maybe if you vote for Biden he’ll be unable to continue in office for whatever reason (will leave to your imagination) and then Kamala Harris takes over. She is markedly more left wing than he is, so there is a possibility you’ll get an outcome you prefer.
Edit: should clarify that I also don’t have a horse in this race since I’m not from the states
This is the narrative that mass media outlets like to tell and retell but I don’t know any US leftists that think Kamala Harris is even remotely leftwing. Literally none.
Yes she probably isn’t as awful on Israel as Biden is, but that isn’t actually saying anything at this point really, Biden is an utter catastrophe on the Palestinian genocide and it very well might lose him the election over it.
But if she becomes president during the next 4 years, she’ll be the new incumbent we can’t primary.
Ah interesting - I thought she was chosen as vice president to “balance out his ticket” and appeal to the left of the party
She’s a cop, there’s nothing leftish wing about her
When she was chosen, it felt like a purposeful insult, like there couldn’t have been a worse candidate. It felt like an appeal to the right who were mad at the anti-police protesting. We do not like her.
As a woman of color. That was pretty much it. This made Biden appear more progressive to those on the left. Her being a former cop made it more palatable to those on the right side of the party.
Can’t wait to see the electoral college throw out my vote for the third election in a row
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I think people just don’t give a shit. I certainly don’t, I want to work as little as possible and enjoy my life as much as I can before the world collapses. Hell half the time I can’t decide if living is still worth it yet I slog on hoping for another day where I get to enjoy something entertaining on twitch or a new video game to play.
You are burnt out and ground down, that is different than not giving a shit. Nobody can judge you for being burnt out, but don’t let the fact that you don’t have the capacity to care right now fool you into believing it is anything other than an indicator that you are burnt out and ground down.
I agree But at the same time where are we starting Like I sure as hell don’t have the guts to start a revolution I’ll join one ig But getting it started is the hardest part
Its called “organizing” for a reason and there is no shame feeling like you are powerless to do this alone.
Are you really worried Democrats will start voting for Trump now or something? I’m so confused why these memes even get upvoted. It is like posting memes saying that the earth is round. Do we really need daily reminders that the world is round? If someone thinks it is flat… is a meme going to change their opinion?
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It’s for the people who are closer to dems on policy but don’t want to vote for either for specific stupid pet reason or blaming Biden for Israel.
So, do you think that constant bitching at voters will help or hurt in this regard?
Don’t vote for any criminal with blood on his hands. Don’t vote for any open or crypto fascist. The best thing you can do for men, women, and minorities all over the world is to not support any corrupted politicians.
There’s a genocide happening right now with the support of USA government where thousands of kids already die and keep getting murdered as we speak.
We allow and are complicit in these murders for every day we stand by and let our leaders do the murdering. If another attack happens on US citizens a la 9/11 then I will not be shocked or surprised, we have it coming. It’s literally a sake of national security that we remove our current leadership from power, otherwise we’re literally inviting a retaliation with blindfolds on.
By what moral framework and reasoning within that framework are you coming to the conclusion that citizens who vote for one candidate over another are morally responsible for every individual act of that leader? I’m quite familiar with most of them, and none support that conclusion.
“If you want democracy you have to be a player.” The decision to let our leaders commit immoral acts is still a decision, and one many of us make daily. Especially when they go around killing other people, if we REALLY didn’t want them to do that we would make sure they wouldn’t, but alas, they do because we’ve given them the keys to power to do so. You could then argue “They don’t represent us” which would mean we don’t have democracy, which I argue to be the case, only because people haven’t been playing their position to have it. We willingly participate in a society that gives power to murderers, which says everything about our society. This is what is being told to us while killing our people in retaliation, maybe we should start listening? Or maybe we care so little about our own victims that we want to create more.
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Can you not admit though that it is a bad look for Democrats when they push a pro-genocide candidate and act like there are no better options to defeat fascism, and then say… you either get what you get or you get total fascism.
Israel is committing the genocide. Biden should change US policy, but he is pressing Israel for a ceasefire. He isn’t Israel and doesn’t set their war agenda, contrary to how fake lefties and useful idiots talk on the internet. In addition to awful, Israel is also being stupid and doing exactly what HAMAS wants imo, its bloodshed turning the world against them understandably. I just don’t understand why people act like Biden is in control or the one to blame…its fucking idiotic.
Probably because he keeps sending them weapons while condemning what they’re doing with those weapons.
I am shocked that more people don’t see the campism on this site laid bare with the way “the left” apparently believes that Joe Biden is in charge of the Israeli military.
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What are you doing as a genocide is happening right now in gaza where thousand of kids are getting murdered?
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My “politics” are not supporting any corrupted criminal with blood on his hands. You are protesting against the genocide while literally begging people to vote one of the corrupted politicians behind it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Israel_in_the_2023_Israel–Hamas_war
You seem the one making bad arguments because i never said women or anyone else should accept any injustice. Not voting for scum is not an “electoral protest” it’s how you are supposed to vote, assuming you are in good faith.
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I’m not supporting or encouraging others to support red or blue party to begin with. Red and blue have been ruling the US for almost a century cycling in power and ruling as one. When people point out that both sides are the same they are also highlighting that regardless of the red/blue side in power government policies barely change. Many of the key people working for the government get recycled regardless of their party. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victoria_Nuland
If you are so worried about the fascist state that could come to fruition you should be worried right now about the fascist state we already have.
Read history, one of the many things that got 1920 fascists consent among the population was advertising themself as a better solution than bolsheviks and communists. Propaganda never changes, you are promoting a corrupted politicians with blood on his hands.
Thousand of kids in gaza don’t have the chance to live anymore, let alone any luxury.
If you want people to vote there are other parties than red and blue you can promote.
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You’re gonna have to be more specific, fella. There isn’t a single politician on this shitty rock who doesn’t have blood on their hands.
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