• Alamutjones@aussie.zone
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    3 months ago

    I mean, they’re not really typing either. Watch them, they hunt and peck with a finger, because that’s how touchscreens work.

    They’re not really learning EITHER skill well…and not having either is a bit of a problem.

  • Railison@aussie.zoneOP
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    3 months ago

    By all means make students handwrite where it’s realistic… notes, forms, etc. but writing by hand, constantly, for over an hour, is just ridiculous.

    • Alamutjones@aussie.zone
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      3 months ago

      It’s not just the writing they’re learning. Writing gives a consistent way to practice fine motor skills in general.

      There are some fucking klutzy kids around who’ve never done much drawing or colouring, never done much craft with scissors, never played an instrument…they’ve never had all that many organically occurring opportunities to practice fine motor skills. If the only practice they get with those broad skills is writing, and then we cull the writing, when do they learn?

      • Quokka@quokk.au
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        3 months ago

        So we teach them through other methods.

        Fine motor skills can be taught through almost anything, it doesn’t have to be writing.

        • Alamutjones@aussie.zone
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          3 months ago

          That’s just it though. They’re NOT being taught through other methods. Kids are measurably getting worse at fine motor skills, and picking them up at later ages, because they’re being given fewer and fewer chances to practice. Kids are doing less drawing, less messy craft, less of just about everything hands on.

          Writing is one of the few options we have that we can guarantee every child - no matter what materials they have access to at home, no matter how involved their parents may or may not be - has ample opportunity to do.

          I get it. Handwriting can be a pain in the backside. I’m literally sitting here with a diagnosed disability that makes it super hard for me - I have cerebral palsy, my fine motor skills are shite - so I absolutely get it. I still handwrite when I can, because it’s some of the best skill development/reinforcement you can do for fine motor.

          • Quokka@quokk.au
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            3 months ago

            At least in early years education I know they’re being taught them.

            As for primary aged children, we should be directing our energy into ensuring they have a wide range of opportunities to do so instead of bemoaning the lost importance of written writing.

            But from what I understand, primary is trialling ECE play based learning ideas so I don’t see why they would be doing less of it?

            • Alamutjones@aussie.zone
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              3 months ago

              They’re doing much, much less of it at home…which means that there are a lot of kids coming into primary school with already extant skill gaps. That’s WHY they’re trialling ECE stuff for slightly older kids - because the kids haven’t learned it yet, when they should have.

              • Quokka@quokk.au
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                3 months ago

                How much handwriting do you expect children to be doing at home? If parents aren’t enabling their children to do arts and crafts etc, they’re not have going to been getting them to do writing either.

                Also the ECE stuff isn’t about not learning such and such skill, it’s about teaching methodology. Going from a top-down teacher knows best approach to one that focuses on fostering children’s innate desire to learn. It’s less rote and more autonomy based teaching.

                • Alamutjones@aussie.zone
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                  3 months ago

                  When I say “they’re not doing it at home” I was referring to fine motor skills in general. Because they’re not drawing, not crafting, not playing with the tactile stuff as much.

                  They come in behind on fine motor generally. Writing is a consistent, every day activity - right from the absolute basics of the alphabet or number recognition and learning to spell/write their own name - that strengthens fine motor skills. If we take writing away as a daily thing, we’re going to struggle to come up with an equivalent activity that can be done as frequently, by as many children, in as many different settings, as writing is.

  • SpruceBringsteen@lemmy.world
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    3 months ago

    What they don’t talk about is how fucked some teachers were when it came to teaching writing.

    Fucking drill sergeant ex nuns had 1st through 3d graders writing the letter S for hours. That’s not how you’re supposed to learn what a cramp is. I’ve got a lump on my middle finger cradles a pencil to this day.

    • ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      Even this article has issues. It recommends holding the pen at a low point for “more control”, which translated to “you have to hold the pen at the very end” in real life, which led me a lot of cramping and the pen sliding away.

  • Baku@aussie.zone
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    3 months ago

    While I wouldn’t say I quite struggle with writing, my hand writing isn’t particularly good nor neat. I know how capitalisation and punctuation works, but if you were judging me based on my hand writing you’d probably think I dropped out after kindergarten

  • Quokka@quokk.au
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    3 months ago

    Good.

    Hand writing is lame and causes pain for long periods.

  • DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com
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    3 months ago

    Am I missing something? Aside from the below comment, I can’t see anything that really talks about why handwriting is important.

    “We know that fluency in thinking and fluency in writing are intimately linked.”

    Why does the decline in student handwriting “spell trouble”?

    • Alamutjones@aussie.zone
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      3 months ago

      Handwritten info tends to be retained better than typed. Something about the physical act of writing makes it stick in the memory. There’s been a measurable downward tick in kids’ ability to recall information when prompted, and it may be linked to more kids no longer writing. So there’s that.

      Handwriting is some of the most consistent practice kids get with fine motor skills in general. More and more kids are learning to do things like tie their shoes, button or zip their own clothing, open packets or manipulate a pair of scissors later than expected, because they’re getting less opportunity - between less writing, less drawing, less messy art/craft stuff, less of everything hands on - to develop strength and control in their hands. So there’s that.

      Handwriting hasn’t actually been replaced with typing. If you actually watch them…they hunt and peck with one finger, because that’s how touchscreens work. If would be different if the skill of handwriting had been replaced wholesale by typing, but as it stands it seems they’re not learning EITHER skill very well. A kid without the skills to do either is a kid who’s going to struggle to communicate clearly beyond a certain level of complexity.

      It’s not the handwriting itself. It’s everything the handwriting practice helps them develop.

      • Catfish@aussie.zone
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        3 months ago

        I absolutely retain information differently from writing and online notes. Ditto reading print and electronic media. Bills also, print stuck to the fridge gets paid, anything email evaporates out of my brain.

      • DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com
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        3 months ago

        I get all that - I still feel that the best way to commit to memory when I take notes in meetings is to handwrite my notes.

        My point is that the article doesn’t go into any detail about why declining handwriting in students “spells trouble”. It’s a shitty headline for what the article actually reports.

  • umbrella@lemmy.ml
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    3 months ago

    the education system is not getting on with the times and needs an overhaul. we are still teaching kids using tech, methods and subjects from what? 100 years ago?