@hitmyspot@GoodEye8@solarpunk “Yet, every country that has tried communism has failed, often with devastating consequences for the people there.” This is American government propaganda, that shows a lack of investigation into the topic.
As people seem to frequently need to be reminded, words have definitions, “socialism” is workers/democratic control of the means of production. It is tough to call a system lacking democratic control of the economy “communism”. Still, I will play this game using the systems commonly defined as “communist” or “socialist”
How come ending “communism” in Russia knocked 10 years off male life expectancy?
Cuba has a per capita income around 1/7th the US, yet it has a life expectancy equal to the US, all while being embargoed for 60 years. That doesn’t sound like a failure. All while still not being “Socialist”, merely not letting rich people control the economy is enough to get these amazing results.
The Norwegian government owns 60% of the economy, 90% if private housing is excluded. They are richer per capita and have longer life expectancies than Americans.
The greater the social ownership of an economy the better the outcomes on metrics that actually matter; life expectancy, infant mortality, education, housing, free time. Frankly, it is common sense.
@hitmyspot@GoodEye8@solarpunk
And another thing 😀
How can you call the USSR a totalitarian state because of the Gulags and Stalin Purges but not say the same thing about the US? We lock up an almost identical share of our population as Russia did at the height of the gulags.
USA=2.4% at its last peak in 2008
Russia=2.5% at its peak in 1950
How about the killings done for economic or state building purposes by those uniquely evil “communists”? I won’t even bother gathering the statistics of Stalin’s Purges vs US genocide of native peoples. At least, Stalin stopped the purges, the US continues to immiserate the native populations and won’t live up to legally binding treaty obligations, see Arizona et al. vs Navajo Nation et al.
At the end of the day, the US and the USSR were/are colonial empires run by oligarchies. The results are going to be substantially similar. Yet the USSR was within spitting distance of US life expectancy on half the GDP per capita for most of the 20th century, until capitalism was introduced. A small amount of egalitarianism goes a long way.
No, its because of the freedoms of the average person now, not the history. The USA has an incarceration problem, but the average american has freedom. The average Russian is careful not to publicly criticise the government. Look at dead opposition and dead generals as a high profile examples.
Capitalism was not introduced non Russia because the USSR was functional. There were bread queues for food, and people were hungry. Capitalism started to fix that. Then Putin put a stop to that progress.
The USA has a lot of problems now and historically. The difference is learning from them and improving. It is always 2 steps forward and one back in any progress, so i do agree there has been a step back. The USA learned from Vietnam and no longer has conscription for its wars. Hundreds of thousands of Russians have been killed in the Ukraine war. After the standing army was depleted, this is by conscription.
You say Russia doesn’t persecute its native peoples? All of those from the former USSR that have joined NATO would disagree. Ukraine would disagree (Ukraine is a distinct country but Russia considers it theirs). Chechens would disagree. Lgbtqi people would disagree with their freedoms.
All countries can and should improve. The USA is a far better place to live than most of your examples. And most of the improvements are due to capitalist style markets.
I hate to break it to you, but Norway practiced capitalism. They just have some of those controls I mentioned. Their biggest reason for wealth is oil reserves, which is state owned and there is a fund used for citizens ratherbthan private interests. Capitalism has allowed their people tonprosper in a way the average person in a similar middle eastern country does not.
You mention Cuban life exoecrancy being high, despite income being much lower. Cuba has excellent healthcare. However, look at their poverty rates. That same healthcare does not function without the research and equipment that cones from capitalist systems. That’s not to saynthere is not excellent research coming from Cuba. There is. However, the level of productivity in their economy does not support the same level of research and equipment manufacturing that occurs in the capitalist west.
We had a recent pandemic. Which vacxine do we use?The western ones. The Chinese and Russian ones have been found lacking. They did excellent research but they don’t have the same capacity for research and testing.
Infant mortality has been dropping worldwide I’ve the last century, based mainly on nutrition and health information. This was led by western countries practicing capitalism. Many in western Europe, that have social programs, as part of capitalism. That’s the point, nobody should follow pure capitalism, but rather use it as a tool to increase productivity and use other methods to channel that increased productivity to more peoples benefit.
@hitmyspot @GoodEye8 @solarpunk “Yet, every country that has tried communism has failed, often with devastating consequences for the people there.” This is American government propaganda, that shows a lack of investigation into the topic.
As people seem to frequently need to be reminded, words have definitions, “socialism” is workers/democratic control of the means of production. It is tough to call a system lacking democratic control of the economy “communism”. Still, I will play this game using the systems commonly defined as “communist” or “socialist”
How come ending “communism” in Russia knocked 10 years off male life expectancy?
Cuba has a per capita income around 1/7th the US, yet it has a life expectancy equal to the US, all while being embargoed for 60 years. That doesn’t sound like a failure. All while still not being “Socialist”, merely not letting rich people control the economy is enough to get these amazing results.
The Norwegian government owns 60% of the economy, 90% if private housing is excluded. They are richer per capita and have longer life expectancies than Americans.
The greater the social ownership of an economy the better the outcomes on metrics that actually matter; life expectancy, infant mortality, education, housing, free time. Frankly, it is common sense.
@hitmyspot @GoodEye8 @solarpunk
And another thing 😀
How can you call the USSR a totalitarian state because of the Gulags and Stalin Purges but not say the same thing about the US? We lock up an almost identical share of our population as Russia did at the height of the gulags.
USA=2.4% at its last peak in 2008
Russia=2.5% at its peak in 1950
How about the killings done for economic or state building purposes by those uniquely evil “communists”? I won’t even bother gathering the statistics of Stalin’s Purges vs US genocide of native peoples. At least, Stalin stopped the purges, the US continues to immiserate the native populations and won’t live up to legally binding treaty obligations, see Arizona et al. vs Navajo Nation et al.
At the end of the day, the US and the USSR were/are colonial empires run by oligarchies. The results are going to be substantially similar. Yet the USSR was within spitting distance of US life expectancy on half the GDP per capita for most of the 20th century, until capitalism was introduced. A small amount of egalitarianism goes a long way.
No, its because of the freedoms of the average person now, not the history. The USA has an incarceration problem, but the average american has freedom. The average Russian is careful not to publicly criticise the government. Look at dead opposition and dead generals as a high profile examples.
Capitalism was not introduced non Russia because the USSR was functional. There were bread queues for food, and people were hungry. Capitalism started to fix that. Then Putin put a stop to that progress.
The USA has a lot of problems now and historically. The difference is learning from them and improving. It is always 2 steps forward and one back in any progress, so i do agree there has been a step back. The USA learned from Vietnam and no longer has conscription for its wars. Hundreds of thousands of Russians have been killed in the Ukraine war. After the standing army was depleted, this is by conscription.
You say Russia doesn’t persecute its native peoples? All of those from the former USSR that have joined NATO would disagree. Ukraine would disagree (Ukraine is a distinct country but Russia considers it theirs). Chechens would disagree. Lgbtqi people would disagree with their freedoms.
All countries can and should improve. The USA is a far better place to live than most of your examples. And most of the improvements are due to capitalist style markets.
I hate to break it to you, but Norway practiced capitalism. They just have some of those controls I mentioned. Their biggest reason for wealth is oil reserves, which is state owned and there is a fund used for citizens ratherbthan private interests. Capitalism has allowed their people tonprosper in a way the average person in a similar middle eastern country does not.
You mention Cuban life exoecrancy being high, despite income being much lower. Cuba has excellent healthcare. However, look at their poverty rates. That same healthcare does not function without the research and equipment that cones from capitalist systems. That’s not to saynthere is not excellent research coming from Cuba. There is. However, the level of productivity in their economy does not support the same level of research and equipment manufacturing that occurs in the capitalist west.
We had a recent pandemic. Which vacxine do we use?The western ones. The Chinese and Russian ones have been found lacking. They did excellent research but they don’t have the same capacity for research and testing.
Infant mortality has been dropping worldwide I’ve the last century, based mainly on nutrition and health information. This was led by western countries practicing capitalism. Many in western Europe, that have social programs, as part of capitalism. That’s the point, nobody should follow pure capitalism, but rather use it as a tool to increase productivity and use other methods to channel that increased productivity to more peoples benefit.