The communism my mother warned me about!

Haha. Stalin’s got a way with words for sure. But you are probably right about anarchists not reading him.

That’s kind of what I was afraid of. I’m genuinely interested in a compelling critique. Like I mentioned, I haven’t seen one. I still sympathize with anarchists but I truly don’t understand how we do the switch-a-roo to communism with a snap. Like, nothing in history has worked that way, let alone, it would seem, a transition from class society to classless, arguably the greatest achievement of all time when it’s done.

But, yeah, this is probably wrong place to ask. I’ll seek out another Lemmy I guess.

Human psychology suggests that major life changes require a lot of time to process the internalization we have while going through them. We have to unpack things and question our own assumptions and be honest with ourselves on things we thought we’d never have to be honest with ourselves about.

I think that most people becoming socialists are coming from the toxic ideology of liberalism. Liberalism is a mental cage, designed to keep people captive in the predominant mode, all while thinking they’re actually free! When becoming a socialist, it’s a real struggled to free oneself from the shackles of liberal thought. It’s really, really tough. And it takes a lot of time, just like any change.

During a transition period from liberalism to socialism (technically, Marxism), people go through large periods of doubt and frustration and pessimism. But don’t let that get you off track. It’s natural and normal. You’re just starting to see the world for what it is, rather than what the powerful want you to believe it is. And the world is confusing and wild and lots of ugly. So it’s alarming.

Keep the course. Stay steady on. You’ll get out of the murky waters eventually. Once you can use material dialectics to analyze news and current events and history and movies and … then you’ll start realizing that the world was always this way and there’s no real sense in getting down about it. Live your life, do your part and push things a little further along.

None of the timings of things are up to us. It’s only on us to be ready for when the moment’s right. And to be humble enough to also be ready for that moment to be after we’re gone. Regardless of the circumstances, a socialist’s job is always the same: educate, agitate and organize.

However, we must remember these people are people

Correction: these people are proletariat. We have the same enemy. Mostly, the only difference between us and them is that we’re a little better at identifying the enemy than they are.

And those bears ain’t even hexed!

I know. I should’ve just made it its own top-level comment probably. Too late, tho.

Ferengi are the ultimate capitalist realists.

I have two dogs (a big one and a little one) and some training from a dog trainer. There’s no “getting even” with dogs. If you pee on their bed, they won’t care. They’ll smell it, and because their sense of smell is drastically more evolved than ours, they’ll figure out what you ate a couple of meals ago and what you’re current mood is. They will not interpret your pee as an act of vengeance.

There’s no punishment you can give. Instead, you need to hack dogs’ psychology (which is easy, actually) and train them to pee outdoors only. The way you do this is to by POSITIVE motivation. Each time they pee outdoors, give them a treat. You have about ~2 seconds to give them that treat though, so keep treats in your pocket at all times. Treats you know they like.

What will happen is that they’ll pee exactly where you want them to pee to get the treat. It takes multiple times, but they’ll make the connection. They just want the treat. Only after they’ve made the appropriate connection between peeing where you want and getting a reward can you begin then to not always give them the treat. Instead, affirm with a simple “good boy” and maybe a pet. Slowly (over weeks) retreat the reward until you’re just giving a verbal “good boy”. And maybe not even every time.

What they will do is just pee outside because “that’s the way they always do it”. That’s it. That’s all their brains will tell them. And they might bark or ask to go outside even when they need to go because, in their heads, it’s “weird” to go inside. It’s not what they did the last 20 times so they don’t want to.

Anyway. Take it from a random person on the Internet: punishment won’t be effective. Just hack your dog’s love of food and love of routine. Keep it positive and you’ll, eventually, receive the fruits of your labor.

as Americans, how can we support struggles that are so far away?

Outside of laundering money to a leftist organization somewhere, I’m not really sure, TBH. Organizations like the International Socialist Alternative (ISA) exist as a kind of way to link up the global struggle across national boundaries. But I have no experience with them and don’t know if that’s a good or bad route.

And how come we are powerless to change things home?

This is all my opinion. I’m sure there’s a way but I think it’s pretty well-hidden. Most of human history is not revolutionary but rather the continuation of a bad system. So it’s less likely you’d be living in a time of revolution than in a time under some class system that seems to be maintaining itself pretty well.

Having said that, we don’t know when the opportunity will present itself either. So in my view, you may as well operate as if a great revolution is just around the corner. Educate workers, organize them, mobilize them, rail against the existing order, etc. The old “education, agitated and organize” addage.

So saying “we’re powerless” isn’t the point, I guess. Because we won’t know whether we are or aren’t until we try and either fail or succeed. Rather, I would say a better viewpoint is simply to acknowledge the fact that we aren’t currently in a moment of historical change. But despite this, our work is pretty much the same either way. And it’s a lot better to understand how political economy works anyway than to remain ignorant and be predisposed to the rat race of electoral politics and the whole spectacle of society.

Like, I can spot the neoliberal propaganda in Marvel movies quite easily. But not too long ago I didn’t see it at all. I think there’s value in that. I’m growing and learning. And I’m able to understand events in terms of class or class struggle.

Like the issue in Niger right now. As a liberal, I would be wanting to pick sides and know if they’re good or bad and probably would have thought the new government was bad and we need to send in the troops. But as a Marxist, I’m like, “Oh, this is like international bourgeoisie against local bourgeoisie and local bourgeoisie has a current interest in decoupling them from neo-colonialism, which is good, but will probably betray that on down the line.” Just being able to frame things by class and class interest is useful.

And, of course, in the context of the USA, your greatest impact is at the local level (county). Your vote actually does count there and it’s at least possible to form a leftist org that forces policy changes on the local level to materially improve lives. Something along the lines of forming a mass line would be the approach here. But on the state and then national level, your vote is effectively useless. Because those processes are anti-democratic and they’re mostly theater to give people the illusion of democracy and make us feel involved when really we’re not actually doing anything that nudges power in the right direction ever.

Because it’s not “failing”, the Internet is fragmenting off into large factions. Step 1 has been capitalism commodifying information, resulting in most information taking one of two forms: siloed off into private databases or SEO sites designed to fish people into siloed off sites. Step 2 is now taking the form of political factions as the world becomes multi-polar again (China, USA and Russia, essentially). Large super powers push their domination in the form of information and each claiming they’re right so you don’t need to worry about all that other stuff.

The concept of the Internet being global is dead. The concept of the Internet being content created by regular people for regular people is dead. Search engines are just showing us this with their results. Which is why sites like duckduckgo aren’t even enough at this point. We are, in effect, just entering a “dark age” of the Internet, where we can expect whole sections to simply not be accessible to us anymore.

To build an entirely new search engine, with broad indexing and showing us real results again that are relevant, you’d need massive amounts of capital. You can’t get that capital from private investment because there’s no profit in doing this. You can’t get that from public funds because it’s not in the interest of governments to go against their chosen hegemony. You’d have to grass-roots the effort, which would be a very precarious endeavor that, even if it launched (which would be a miracle), it would be difficult to maintain. Even models like Wikimedia aren’t actually sustainable. Wikipedia ultimately curtails to the Western world, as it’s moderators and editors largely make up the same hegemonic viewpoint. And Wikimedia doesn’t have to do indexing of the entire web, which, at minimum, requires substantially more compute power than they currently use.

EDIT: It’s also worth mentioning at this point that a project to “fix the Internet” is probably low on the list of things to “fix” right now. So any leftists taking on the challenge should be aware that they’re spending gobs of resources and time on something that only the upper-tier of individuals care about in this world. Time and money would be better spent towards humanitarian aid as people get displaced due to climate change. Or in funding revolutions for areas of the world that are ready for it. By no means am I suggesting we should do a Google rewrite. I’m simply pointing out that everything we should have predicted capitalism doing to information is coming to pass and while things are shitty, they’ll definitely get shittier and we shouldn’t be surprised. Nor should we really care much, IMO. Because the core issue is just the contradictions within capitalism manifesting themselves into the Internet. Trying to fix the Internet is working backwards and, frankly, will probably be a fruitless endeavor. We Marxian-read leftists should know better.

For the USA? My sad opinion is, for the moment, that we don’t. We are trapped.

But I think I doesn’t matter. Once you scale your vision beyond the borders of any particular country, you realize there’s a lot we can do here and now to fight for socialism. Namely, supporting struggles elsewhere, such as in the Philippines.

Sublation Media (Douglas Lane) just had an interview with Benjamin Studebaker about this. In Studenaker’s book, The Chronic Crisis of American Democracy, he argues that we have unresolvable problems that can really only get worse at this point. That is, the prevailing winds will be austerity and a retraction of democracy and freedom as capitalism fortifies itself against the global changes that challenge it (China, global warming, African liberation, S. American liberation, etc).

It’s probably worth a listen: https://youtu.be/PD3qsR8GrX4

I’m not saying to despair but rather to keep your Marxist chops sharp and recognize how things are changed so you can know what’s possible and what isn’t. Only if we’re honest about the reality of the situation can be seek real options for what to do about it.

I love how, with the Snowden leaks and more, we know definitively that the US government is collecting all our data but people are super scared right now that China might be spying on them.

One thing’s for sure: capitalism seems to be miles ahead of any socialist country when it comes to propagandizing their citizens. Because the best propaganda is the kind that you don’t even know is there.

Thanks. I’ll check that out.

I don’t think there’s real evidence the Uyghur thing is actual genocide. Nothing points to that. We might be able to say that China is overdoing it and has fallen into the territory of negatively effecting the culture and identity of those people. But it’s certain not actual genocide. They’re dealing with serious issues of terrorism on their borders and the ideology of those terrorist factions has latched onto their culture and identity. Sussing all that out is an impossible task. Yet they must do something because too many innocent people were being killed by bombings.

I don’t agree with China’s methods there. Simultaneously, I can recognize that when the USA has similar issues (9/11 attacks for example), they chose outright war and killing millions of innocent people in the name of defeating terrorism (which they, predictably, never accomplished). So, um, if given these two bad options, I think China did better.

But, more importantly, I think China’s trajectory is much better. As capitalism gets more desperate, it’s been closing borders, allowing helpless immigrants to drown in boats, destabilizing countries, etc. Meanwhile, China continues to improve their methods of dealing with sticky situations and not just rolling in the tanks at the first sign of trouble (like they used to).

Anyway. That’s the extent that I know about that stuff (lots of listening to David Dumbrill’s stuff on YouTube).

But you are right that conversation is impossible while the “Uyghur issue” exists.

McCarthyism. It was basically like the Soviet Union purges but for capitalists (against communists).

My personal view is that the first mass wave of communism and socialism (19th and then 20th century) took the bourgeoisie by surprise. They learned their lesson and now spend a lot of effort on building and maintaining liberal ideology and squashing any real socialist movements quickly. Meanwhile, the proletariat doesn’t even know who they are so there’s no class consciousness building and they’re constantly stuck in the spectacle that is the labor/consume cycle.

It’s whack, unless we’re talking about a glove you wear while eating ice cream so the melted ice cream doesn’t get on your hands!

I would say yes. It was incredibly common in his day and just because you weren’t a member of the Communist party didn’t mean you weren’t a socialist. I can’t really see anything about his politics that isn’t socialist so I’d say yes.

[giggles]