• Spzi@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Not necessarily take, but a demilitarized zone might make sense, and that has to be put somewhere.

        Like prevent troops amassing in “peaceful exercise” so they cannot surprise invade again.

        • Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Sure, but implying Ukraine would want to attack its neighbouring country, to take land for any reasons seems strange. That’s more like what Russia would do.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        Zelensky already said that Ukraine is willing to exchange Belgorod for NATO membership.

    • dmnknf@lemmy.ml
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      1 year ago

      Come on, not even zelensky had any hope they would accept this peace plan. They’re basically asking Russia to stop the war and give back all the territory they occupied. The Ukrainian counter offensive stopped at a brick wall, the Russians have no reason at all to do this.

      • FaceDeer@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        Pretty crumbly and porous brick wall, there. And they apparently neglected to build it around Sevastopol.

      • bluGill@kbin.social
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        1 year ago

        War is normally a slow process. In historical terms Ukraine is making good progress… it is mostly fiction where wars are one in a couple days.

          • bluGill@kbin.social
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            1 year ago

            There have been a lot of exceptions. However the majority of wars are longer as if you don’t think you can win surrender terms are generally better than death.

          • PersnickityPenguin@lemm.ee
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            1 year ago

            Sure, if you fight in the middle of the desert with little cover and no mud, progress is fast once you cut through the defensive lines. Vs fighting in mud and forests.

        • dmnknf@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          Western people are funny to say the least, i dont know why, if it has something to do if the fact u guys always lived in such a privileged position that u can live in a fantasy world.

          Try to be pragmatic. I never said it had to be quick, I never said this is unwinnable right now, I just said that makes no sense for the Russians to accept this terms right now, and Ukrainians are not stupid, they know this. Or were u expecting putin to wake up this morning feeling bad for what he have done and just move his troops out of Ukraine?

      • paddirn@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They didn’t have any hope because Putin is a warmonger. Any “peace plan” that Russia would find acceptable would just delay the inevitable and give Russia time to build back up, they’ve already shown their cards. Russia needs to give up on its territorial aspirations and give back what it’s stolen. Russia could’ve held onto Crimea even had it just not invaded Ukraine, the rest of the world had basically turned a blind eye to it (it wasn’t right, but that was the reality), instead they get to watch their military turn to dust, just like Putin will be doing within a decade.

          • paddirn@lemmy.world
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            1 year ago

            I’m not saying that all, but facts on the ground were that, 2014–2022, Russia had control of Crimea and nobody was going to do anything about that for fear of getting into conflict with Russia. That Crimea even “passed” into Russian hands without much of a fight from the international community is probably what emboldened Putin to go after the rest of Ukraine. What I’m saying is that had he stuck to just that sort of low-level “piecemeal” approach to carving out sections of Ukraine, like what was do e with Crimea, he wouldn’t have gotten nearly the amount of international backlash that he got.

            Is Crimea part of Ukraine? Yes, but when it comes to international borders, facts on the ground are what matter in the long-run. Had Putin bided his time, eventually it would’ve just been accepted as fact. Nobody else would’ve ever cared enough to start a war over it. With Putin going for all-out-war though, he’s revealed Russia’s military weakness and facts on the ground have become mutable again, giving us the chance that we’ll hopefully see Crimea come back into Ukraine.

        • dmnknf@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I’m not judging who is or who isn’t a warmonger or whatever, let’s just be pragmatic, it makes no sense at all for Russia to accept those terms. Were u expecting the Russian Govt. to suddenly wake up one morning feeling bad for what they’ve done and just move the troops out of Ukraine, including Crimea who’s under Russian control for over a decade now, and say “sorry, my bad”? This 10 point plan they “proposed” was only made so western media can say they’re trying to stop the war, which they aren’t. And again, I’m not saying they have to stop the war, I’m just analyzing things objectively.

          • Reality Suit@lemmy.one
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            1 year ago

            I’m saying Putin can stop this war right now by going home. This is all Putins’ fault supported by oligarchs. It makes complete sense for putin to accept these terms, because he will eventually be forced to.

            • Count042@lemmy.ml
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              1 year ago

              There are no oligarchs in Russia.

              Words have meanings. An oligarch is someone who has political power through wealth.

              Russia is an autocracy, and Putin allows people to be rich, so long as they don’t try to translate that into political power.

              America has oligarchs, Russia just has rich people that contribute to an autocracy.

              … I’m honestly not sure which is more evil as a political system.

            • agarorn@feddit.de
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              1 year ago

              What makes you believe we will eventually be forced? Do you still think our sanctions will make Russia collapse?

      • KevonLooney@lemm.ee
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        1 year ago

        The counteroffensive is moving forward slowly because the Russians put a ton of mines and trenches in the way. Plus they committed their best troops to stopping it. Still Ukraine is slowly moving forward in the south.

        I wouldn’t want to be there right now on either side. But basically the Ukrainians are winning because their artillery is better. Once Ukraine moves their artillery within range of the highway along the Sea of Azov, the troops protecting Crimea will have their supplies threatened. This is the general plan and they’re getting closer.

        • dmnknf@lemmy.ml
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          1 year ago

          I never said this in unwinnable, but don’t make any sense to propose a peace plan to Russia right now demanding them to return all the land they occupied. Ukrainians are not dumb, they know this, this peace “proposal” is just a piece of propaganda to western media to say they are trying to start peace talks with Russia or some shit. The Russian ministry answered this out of anger but he’s not wrong, the Ukraine is only getting their territory back if they can put a huge pressure on Russians, possibly only if they can manage to make Russia fear to be attacked on their own territory. And even if this happens we have to trust Russians won’t nuke Ukraine to protect their own territory.

      • yata@sh.itjust.works
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        1 year ago

        The Ukrainian counter offensive stopped at a brick wall

        What a bunch of Putin propagandistic nonsense.

      • jcit878@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        holy shit stop invading and leave? OUTRAGEOUS! the nerve of zelensky to ask for what is Ukraine’s! I think you should go join the trenches to show how mad you are!

        • Enkrod@feddit.de
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          1 year ago

          No, see when he says “a fairer distribution of global benefits” that needs to start with distributing ukrainian benefits to russian oligarchs obviously!

        • shalafi@lemmy.world
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          1 year ago

          Zelensky knowing that there wasn’t a hope in hell of Russians accepting this is false? You know it, I know it, we all know it. It’s just politics. Of course Zelensky has to offer something, even if he knows they won’t bite.

          The Russians have to claw something out of this debacle to sue for peace. And I hope the Ukrainians give them nothing, and take back the Crimea while they’re at it.

        • Thorny_Thicket@sopuli.xyz
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          1 year ago

          Source

          They’re making slow progress constantly but the front lines are barely moving. There’s obviously a chance for a big break through as the first defences are always the heaviest and it should get easier after that, but there’s still a long way to go, and they’re both taking heavy casualties every single day.

          • ☆ Yσɠƚԋσʂ ☆@lemmy.ml
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            1 year ago

            The only actual progress being made is in destroying the equipment NATO managed to cobble together and losing trained manpower. Even if a miracle happened and Ukraine managed to make some breakthrough, what exactly is it going to be consolidated with given that they spent past three and a half months beating their head against a wall. They’ve already thrown in all the reserve brigades that were originally meant to come in and consolidate the gains now.

      • Reality Suit@lemmy.one
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        1 year ago

        I mean, if Putin doesn’t want to die, he can always gobtje fuck home. I mean he can still suck a bag of dicks and then choke on them.

      • utopianfiat@lemmy.world
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        1 year ago

        They’re basically asking Russia to stop the war and give back all the territory they occupied.

        Yes.

    • Echo Dot@feddit.uk
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      1 year ago

      I’m not saying it’s not going to happen but Russia would have to attack NATO first.

      No one wants to attack a nuclear power if they don’t have to.

      • ours@lemmy.film
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        1 year ago

        NATO directly fighting Russian troops in Ukraine would be a big deal and quite unlikely already if it somehow got to that.

        Russians need to be kicked out of Ukraine but they need to kick out Putin out of Russia themselves.

          • FaeDrifter@midwest.social
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            1 year ago

            It’s anti-Democratic to interfere in the politics of other countries.

            And yes, the US has done it a lot, and tries to keep it hushed up because it’s extremely wrong and unpopular behavior.

          • ours@lemmy.film
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            1 year ago

            First, why would NATO risk escalation and bother losing troops when they can get Ukraine to do all the actual fighting?

  • Enkrod@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    “Our future is being shaped by a struggle, a struggle between the global majority in favor of a fairer distribution of global benefits and civilized diversity and between the few who wield neocolonial methods of subjugation in order to maintain their domination which is slipping through their hands,” he said.

    I mean, he’s not factually wrong, just framing it in reverse. Russia is indeed trying to colonize Ukraine to maintain their dominion which is slipping through their hands. It’s just not using neocolonial methods but good old armed conquest.

    And the people in favor of a fairer distribution of global benefits aren’t the people he’s thinking of. I mean it’s also clearly not the US, but “taking what Ukraine has and giving it to Russian Oligarchs” is also not a fairer distribution.

    • zaphod@lemmy.ca
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      1 year ago

      You know what they say about the right: every accusation is a confession.

      • Enkrod@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        Even IF ukrainian oligarchs were a problem…

        Ukrainian oligarchs can get at ukrainian money without waging a war of aggression that causes nearly 30thousand civilian casualties.

  • macniel@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    If only political leader would still take their sword and fight each other on the battlefield instead of letting the armies fight for those old geezers.

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      If any people deciding to go to wars had to really put their asses on the front lines the world would definitely be a peaceful place.

      But as always, in both sides, only the poor working class is dying on the front line.

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          1 year ago

          Yes, of course, the working class in old western tanks and the rich and the politicians in their unicorns…

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        1 year ago

        russia is running out of the poor though, weird who would have thought using human wave tactics would decimate a population…

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    1 year ago

    a view taking hold among Ukraine’s allies that the war is likely to go on for years

    That’s been obvious since 2014, and since the full invasion of last year.

  • AzPsycho@lemmy.world
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    1 year ago

    The battlefield isn’t even being faught on the Ukrainian side using the most cutting edge of Western technology and you want to keep fighting? Holy shit.

  • float@feddit.de
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    1 year ago

    I would love to see that guy getting drafted and thrown into the battlefield he’s bragging about.

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    I’d like to see that old fascist fucker on the front lines, to join the conscripts he’s sending to their deaths.

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    1 year ago

    I fucking hate this guy’s guts. I know that’s why he’s so good at his job, but I just… ugh. Whenever I see his stupid face, it’s like I’m getting preliminarily angry.

    • Etterra@lemmy.world
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      1 year ago

      I’m trying to remember what language it is, it might be German or Japanese, which has a word which translates “a face badly in need of a fist.” That’s this guy.

      • runiq@feddit.de
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        1 year ago

        German, Backpfeifengesicht. I also like “Fresse wie’n Lexikon: Aufschlagen, zuschlagen, nachschlagen.”

          • runiq@feddit.de
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            It’s okay, we’re aware it’s hard. :-/ The compound words aren’t even the worst part, actually—articles are the real killers. Those, and the fact that the grammatically correct word order changes depending on what kind of idea you’re trying to get across. Ugh.

            On the other hand, English is its own can of worms. If I hadn’t learned English as my first foreign language, I’d have pulled my hair out, mostly because of the spelling.

            English is a difficult language. It can be understood through tough thorough thought, though.

  • JuBe@beehaw.org
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    1 year ago

    This sounds a lot like Hitler in the late 1930s (in the lead-up to World War 2).