Iām gonna get real with you folks, weāve had way too many of these posts recently. Iāve been reflecting on this topic a lot the past few days. For me personally, I couldnāt care less about my gender identity. But just because thatās true for me, doesnāt make that true for everyone.
The beauty of the fediverse is that if you donāt like the way a particular instance or community is moderated you can simply choose another to hang out on, or create your own.
Blajah has made it pretty clear by now they will ban anyone who argues against the validity of xenogenders, in order to create a safe space for those folks. Thatās fair enough imo.
Safe spaces should be respected, and Blajahās admins/mods do not deserve abuse for creating and maintaining those spaces.
I can completely understand why Blajah users donāt want to have to constantly argue with external users about the validity of their chosen identities. Bans are one way Blajah has decided to manage that problem so that their users can experience lemmy in relative peace and safety. While it is a blunt tool and I have my reservations about preemptive bans, there are not many other options for @ada@lemmy.blahaj.zone, other than defederation from most instances. That would be a terrible outcome for the fediverse as a whole.
In order to help Blajah to maintain their safe space, I would like to propose, if @db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com agrees and community sentiment is positive:
- that we no longer accept posts about this topic in this community; and
- we also remove previous posts on this topic from the community.
Thatās all folks, have at 'er.
Edit: thanks for all your feedback and comments. I think itās clear that the vast majority of people are fed up with this topic coming up repeatedly.
Summarizing the feedback, Iād say most folks would prefer to retain previous posts for the sake of posterity, and to serve as an example of why we donāt want anymore of these posts. Iām happy to take that on board. For those folks saying Iām a PTB for intervening in this way, Iāll just remind you that I havenāt made any arbitrary mod decisions, and Iāve consulted with db0 and the community as a whole before taking any mod actions.
I think the way to move forward with this is to acknowledge that thereās a bunch of queer and straight people who have a problem with xenogenders. Personally, I think thatās a valid perspective and shouldnāt sanctioned on our instance. But for Blajah, theyāve drawn a line in the sand over this and thatās ok too. Our instance wonāt be blocking anyone over their opinions on the topic, especially in this community where free discussion is necessary and encouraged. But safe spaces should be respected.
A lot of folks mentioned I should more more specific about the āno more posts about Blajahās mod policiesā rather than making it a sweeping and overly broad statement. I think thatās good feedback. I will amend this to "No more posts in this community about the validity or otherwise of neopronouns, xenogenders, and bans originating from Blajah about gatekeeping or transphobia. This is in recognition of Blajahās safe space policy. You are of course free to discuss those topics outside of this community.
Note that this decision isnāt about ideological gatekeeping, its about reducing the workload for our own mods and admins in trying to moderate this community, and to avoid iterating over the same old topics again and again.
Blajah isnāt getting a āfree passā over YPTB posts - if you feel they are power tripping over other issues then feel free to make a post here. But if itās a post questioning the validity of xenogenders or about Blajah bans for gatekeeping then that will no longer be allowed here. Those folks deserve a safe space on Lemmy, even if itās not a mainstream opinion.
For those folks who feel aggrieved about being accused of ātransphobiaā or āgatekeepingā over their views on this topic, I completely understand just how hurtful it can be to be unfairly (imo) accused in this way. Iāve been in the same position, and I also found it difficult to deal with. I want those folks to know that our instance does not require you to support xenogenders in order to participate in our instance. However we do require that you use preferred pronouns whenever they are specified. Thatās been a longstanding instance policy on dbzer0.
Thank everyone for your feedback.
As Iāve said in other posts Iām happy to use gender neutral pronouns, particularly as a default option, but Iām not doing the neopronoun thing, thatās just silly.
You donāt get to arbitrarily decide how language works.
Wait, youāre arbitrarily deciding how language works.
The fact that neopronouns are new donāt make them any *morez arbitrary than existing words.
Language evolves and shifts, even when thereās a governing body of formal language like French has.
Ever heard the phrase āto coin a phraseā? Itās literally a phrase that was coined about making up a new phrase being similar to making a new coin in a mint.
Brobdingnagian may be an obscure word, but itās in dictionaries. It was totally made up by people in response to the writings of Gulliverās Travels.
Ever get ghosted? Or butt dial someone? Or call someone on a telephone at all? Because the telephone was an invention, named arbitrarily. Someone decided to name the invention that, and it was arbitrary, based in root words from old languages, not even english. Then people just shrugged and went with it.
Mind you, I tend to not have the capacity for neopronouns that arenāt fairly standardized. Once itās something uncommon, Iām too old to remember it without a lot of effort that Iām rarely going to make for a stranger. Iāll just not talk to them rather than deal with it, but itās still my problem, not theirs.
But arguing that it isnāt valid because itās arbitrary is just silly.
Nobody has ever demanded I say those things the way Blahaj does.
Malarkey.
Nobody is chasing people around trying to make them say things.
The only time theyāre demanding you use their pronouns is when youāre talking to them. And if you arenāt, then maybe the problem isnāt their pronouns, since thereās a lovely block function if you donāt want to just walk away.
You know thatās an option, right? To just walk away. Itās even easy to do. Easier than trying to argue about how language works when you donāt really understand it yourself. Easier than making a false claim.
Also, you are aware that blahaj is an instance, right? It doesnāt have some monolithic spiritual entity that makes demands. Itās not an individual person. So, trying to claim āblahajā demanded anything is just silly.
Or about them, even outside of Blahaj.
Call the Dragon a ātheyā, and youāll know about it. Doesnāt matter where.
No, actually I use the pronouns they/them about dragon rider/fucker, and have never been banned.
Iāve explained why I use those instead of the individual pronoun requested, and have even discussed my ongoing internal debates about neopronouns on blahaj and have not been banned. I have never been attacked on blahaj or elsewhere for disagreeing with someone respectfully. I have had a few heated comments directed my way, and discussed those points, while still maintaining the stance I had at the time, without being banned or attacked.
Now, while thatās not the same as being preemptively banned, or banned for things outside of blahaj, it indicates to me that it isnāt so much holding a different opinion as it is how one expresses that opinion.
Seriously, in one of the many discussions on the subject I had on blahaj, where I expressed my previous opinion that neopronouns were a negative thing overall, and possibly detrimental to the cause of trans rights, the worst I got was āyou donāt get to decide who deserves the respect of their pronounā.
The key difference, and I think it vital that you understand it, is that my opinion was expressed with respect. I didnāt call anyone silly. I didnāt call anyone delusional, or crazy, or even a troll (though I did ask Dragon rider if they are a troll, and express that I suspected they may be, in a different conversation).
See, it doesnāt matter if you think itās silly. It doesnāt matter if I donāt think itās silly (and some of the choices of xenopronouns are silly in that theyāre frothy and light and invoke playful imagery). All that matters is that we donāt get to decide who is and isnāt worthy of respect. We donāt get to decide who is and isnāt worthy of having their pronouns respected.
You ever run across discussions of jury trials? How theyāre flawed because youāre relying on 12 people to catch the guilty?
Thereās a principle that itās better for 10 guilty to go free than one innocent be convicted.
Think about that principle for a second, and apply it to trolls.
It is better for a dozen trolls to have their pronouns respected than one genuine person to have theirs ignored.
And it really is better. It doesnāt matter if itās silly or not. Itās about basic human decency.
Now, the admins are currently going over the line more often than I think is acceptable. Theyāre preemptively banning people that are only phrasing things badly, or are expressing the same thing I did, but badly, and are otherwise allies. I think they gotta be very careful doing that.
But Iām not the one having to protect a bunch of people that depend on me for their one place to be able to express their full self, even if the rest of the world thinks itās silly.
I know exactly how far Iām willing to go to protect my people irl. Iād gladly empty a magazine into some hate filled bastard to keep one trans kid from having some asshole spitting in their face. So, maybe, a few bans here and there is not a major problem in my mind. Iāll acknowledge Iām a radical in this regard. My perception of the admin actions to protect their people may be skewed. But if thatās the case, Iād still argue that if youāre calling people silly for wanting the freedom to just be and be respected online in what is damn near the only space they have, maybe youāre perceptions are skewed. Maybe your ideas are silly, not theirs.
Fucking BINGO