The stainless steel body of Tesla’s Cybertruck is reportedly leading to issues with gaps in between the panels::The Cybertruck’s steel is made in “coils that resemble giant rolls of toilet paper,” WSJ reported.
The Cybertruck’s steel is made in “coils that resemble giant rolls of toilet paper,”
All steel is shipped from the steel mill in coils just like that.
Other manufacturers of all manner of stainless products seem to have figured out a solution to the problem.
Other manufacturers of all manner of stainless products seem to have figured out a solution to the problem.
Two design choices together probably make the problem multiplicatively worse:
- Flat panels are not anywhere as stiff as curved panels.
- Mechanical parameters of the stainless alloy they’re using (eg it might retain the coiled shape more than some other plain steel alloys).
I can’t get over the flatness… those panels surely rattle too? Or do they void-fill the doors and body with something?
Flat panels are not anywhere as stiff as curved panels
Same for windows. So much for “thermonuclear explosion-proof glass”, Elon.
Also, the shape has horrible aerodynamics. If it had a combustion engine, they couldn’t sell it in large parts of the world due to fuel efficiency.
Also, the shape has horrible aerodynamics. If it had a combustion engine, they couldn’t sell it in large parts of the world due to fuel efficiency.
I doubt it will get a type approval in Europe anyway, seems absolutely no consideration for pedestrian safety has been given. If this thing is as stiff and solid as Musk said it was it is also going to fail miserably during crash testing. Having been in a car crash this weekend I can testify how crumple zones save lives. Good thing the whole “but it’s a light truck” loophole they used in the US isn’t going to fly here.
Knowing about crumple zones makes you ask why you would even want a “stiff and solid” vehicle in the first place lmao.
So they can’t sue you after the crash cuz no one survives it.
They’ll probably have kamikaze mode for when it detects a crash about to happen it speeds up.
So you can absorb all that sweet sweet kinetic energy being released yourself of course. Energy gud right? And as you already paid for that energy at the Fast Charger, it seems only fair that they give it back to you when you crash.
Point 2 in particular is huge. Depending on the exact alloy steel can vary wildly in characteristics. One alloy might bend almost as easily as aluminum, while another might be nearly as hard as tungsten. Adding to that proper heat treatment and the difference in the mechanical characteristics of the finished product can be absolutely massive.
Yes but that can be adjusted. The factory can provide what you need. The design is the limiting factor here. Flat panels are simply bad design.
Flat panels cause problems but they’re not insurmountable, they just need to be taken into consideration. It’s going to be more expensive to make them flat because you’ll have to include more material behind the panels. In a sense they cease to be structural and instead are more decorative.
From an engineering perspective it’s a horrendous choice, but a perfectly valid one from an aesthetics perspective and it’s far from the first time some designer has made a decision that the engineering department has cursed them for.
I imagine the real issue here is that Musk or the upper management at Tesla is trying to penny pinch and is unwilling to make either design concessions or to pay for the engineering time and materials necessary to fix this right.
Don’t older cars have mostly flat panels? So it should be possible, right?
How old?
Early 1900’s: Yes. Metal panels had the same problem, timber panels did not (their thickness stops them from flapping).
Late 1900’s: I don’t think anyone used flat? There were definitely designs intended to look flat (esp 80’s and early 90’s), but there were still subtle curves to those panels to bias them and stop them flapping, as far as I recall.
Happy to be proven wrong :)
but there were still subtle curves to those panels to bias them and stop them flapping
Okay, that explains it. Thanks!
Seems like tesla has an answer too:
sell the poorly made trucks to rubes while you crank out more as cheaply as possible.
Company doing stuff they have no expertise with. Neither have i, but i don’t promise silly products.
You mean the thing everyone said was going to happen actually happened. Lmao
LMAO X2
Not a Tesla fan but this article is garbage. Basically all sheet metal comes on coils “that resemble toilet paper” including the metal that other manufacturers use.
It definitely seems like an irrelevant point. All car sheet steel arrives in rolls.
I’d be more concerned about how it is formed into panels, how resistant it is to corrosion, what tolerances parts have, how easy is it to replace parts, whether there are visible production flaws due to it being naked steel, and if construction techniques or material thickness makes it more dangerous to occupants or pedestrians in collisions.
I certainly won’t be surprised if pictures start appearing in a year or two of cybertrucks that have been completely fucked by salt water corrosion, or heat warppage or other issues caused by their design.
I certainly won’t be surprised if pictures of that don’t start appearing in a year or two because the things still haven’t been delivered
(I know, I know, they’re supposed to be delivering the first ones in two days, but I genuinely wouldn’t be surprised if that somehow falls through)
When they make plywood it comes wrapped up super tight in a tree
Has anyone complimented your genius today?
yeah. panel gaps aren’t a sheet metal issue, it’s been a Tesla issue since forever.
“Water? Like out the toilet?”
*terlet
The same thing you can make sangria in?
“It’s just chunks of fruit, I swear!”
Please only wash your Cyber Truck with Brawndo™
Yeah, but other manufacturers don’t try to origami sheet metal into a car.
That’s almost exactly what they do…
The missing point is it’s a property of stainless steel that it remembers being a coil and can unflatten itself weeks later if the manufacturer doesn’t know how to work around that.
I’ve worked with stainless steel (specifically 304, 430 and 401) for 15 years and the steel shouldn’t have a memory after being run through a de-coiling machine that is configured properly. Excessive heat in a focused area would definitely cause it to warp but this can usually be overcome by adding geometry to stiffen the parts. It seems like the team at Tesla is missing a step somewhere.
Well at least Elon can pretend that all the panels were within 10 microns of gap when they left the factory, and it totally warped 2 cm (20000 microns) on the way to the customers.
So wait. You’re telling me that materials can expand and contract due to many conditions such as shifts in temperature? Ya don’t say (that was directed at Elon, not you).
Sure, he could say that. It’s still his/Tesla’s fault. Shipping the product is part of the process, and they’d still be responsible for that (or should be at least. Who knows in this dystopia).
He’d probably just say that it arrived in perfect shape, the customer just fucked it up and are lying. Or something like that.
Seems like the answer here is “You’re an idiot if you buy Tesla products”.
Essy lesson to learn, imo.
Good old fashioned blame the customer. He’s so good at it his fanbois will do it for him.
What a surprise! The other well known stainless steel car, the Delorean DMC-12, is FAMOUS for being a huge pain in the ass to work on. Dents and dings are tremendous problems, and stainless steel is super heavy.
Not to mention all of the manual labour it took to make all the panels to fit properly. No 2 delorean were the same
Depending on the grade, the weight difference between stainless steel and carbon steel of the same thickness is not much of any at all.
Don’t most cars use aluminum as well as carbon steel in their frames, to save on weight?
I think the majority just use regular steel. Ford was a talking point when they started using aluminum for the F150 body panels. And then they started running into corrosion issues where the aluminum meets the steel fasteners and frame.
I doubt this has any stainless in the frame. Really it should be a comparison of stainless vs aluminum and plastic body panels
Well, it wouldn’t be a Tesla if it didn’t.
10 micron!
I think we all just misheard him and he actually said it had macron precision, not micron
Oui oui!
Panel gaps are just a ubiquitous feature of a Tesla. This isn’t a surprise, and the apologists will say it’s no big deal.
I am not a car guy. Would gaps allow water to come in and causes issues as well as act like asail increasing air resistance?
Probably not in this case. Most vehicle doors are designed to channel any water that enters the gap. But, Tesla may not be aware of this practice and rely only on the seals.
Don’t ask questions, just hail Elon our overlord who can do no wrong!
Seig heil! Seig heil! Wait, wrong person… Or is it?!?
It would slightly increase wind resistance. Every car has weather stripping, making water not a concern even for comparatively very large gaps.
LoL some Tesla’s dont even have drainage tubes installed or weather stripping missing or installed incorrectly like needing an article about it
Also if you look up just “water leaking” and “tesla” you will find their forums full of people saying their cars let in water and even one person saying it gets in when they use a car wash and Tesla saying its normal and to just hand wash the vehicle from now on.
Some level of gaps is totally normal but this is a shit show.
You should see the videos of model Y owners (a model they’ve had many iterations on) roll down their window during rain to get a drive through order and the water pours into the open window directly onto the, you guessed it, button console used to open/close the window and DOOR. I’m sure that won’t eventually cause problems. With OPENING THE DOOR.
And it’s not just falling rain, it literally channels rain from the glass roof directly into any open window. It’s hilarious.
This isn’t even the first time this has happened to a Tesla, at this point this particular problem is just expected.
Tesla’s quality control just reflects Elons concern for all his biological children.
Much like the wealthy expert who built his own sub, there is a need to listen to other experts. Your employees that aren’t fired will be the “yes” people
Every single thing you’ve ever had that had sheet metal in it came from “coils that resemble giant rolls of toilet paper”. But it’s the WSJ, I just assume the writer has never met anyone who works for a living.
4x8 sheets are pretty popular, too.
Flat panels suck for resistance to bending, the compound curves and folds pressed into most car panels give them more rigidity
Watch what happens when people eventually discover what completely flat panels of sheet metal do in heavy wind.
There is literally a reason why no other auto manufacturer uses flat body panels on cars.
Just so I know, what does happen?
they get real flappy
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Metal does not like to compress at all. But when you make it really thin it will be floppy like a spring you might find in a pen or wind up toy. However you can make it stiff again by making it curved so the sheet has structure/mass going on all directions. Infact believe it or not cars during the 1960/70s had quite a bit of curves dispute being a brick. And that’s because they didn’t want the panels to dent easily. So when a car has flat faces like the Cyber truck. Those panels don’t even have subtle curves to give them structure and they are soo suspectable to dents that a simple brease does the job of denting them.
I assume the flat panels have an aerodynamic effect like the underbody of race cars. They ultimately create forces sucking the surface into a direction. And since on the sides it will be never stable it will flap around all the time. You can see that the most with the vertical fin stabilizer of Formula 1 cars. https://old.reddit.com/r/F1Technical/comments/nd2ayw/alpine_flexible_rearwing/
Here is a lot of wobbling and while the vertical changes are intended, the horizontal ones surely aren’t and they tried to make it as stiff as possible. Certainly nothing a production car would achieve.
Correct me if I am wrong, as I didn’t study this particular area.
I love how this is a joke that just went too far. Elon presented a stupid design, just for attention, as with everything he does. And now they are seriously taking about releasing the ugliest car since the Fiat Multipla.
Fiat Multipla
Damn that’s a goofy lookin car. Looks almost like the car that Homer Simpson designed.
I had to look it up. I was not expecting your joke to be literal. It does look like Homer’s car! Just without the second dome.
Should have just been left as a quirky concept car. Obviously divisive design but I think it looks best under specific lighting conditions.
Oh no! You have to respect the “Spaltmaß”! * cries in German *
I mean in the end it is a sign of sloppy craftsmanship. The gaps themselves might not be so bad, but they reflect an alarming lack of quality control, that could very well affect more critical systems.
If I can’t trust you to make a good looking turd, how can I trust you to make an actual quality product?
