Former Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-Ill.) bashed former President Trump online and said Christians who support him “don’t understand” their religion.

“I’m going to go out on a NOT limb here: this man is not a Christian,” Kinzinger said on X, formerly known as Twitter, responding to Trump’s Christmas post. “If you are a Christian who supports him you don’t understand your own religion.”

Kinzinger, one of Trump’s fiercest critics in the GOP, said in his post that “Trump is weak, meager, smelly, victim-ey, belly-achey, but he ain’t a Christian and he’s not ‘God’s man.’”

  • 【J】【u】【s】【t】【Z】@lemmy.world
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    11 months ago

    I don’t think so. He’s not saying they aren’t “true” Christians, an undefinable standard of "true. He’s saying they don’t understand it. Christ flipped the tables and whipped the money changers, these people worship a real estate speculator. Christ’s message is one of social welfare and commonwealth, conservative populists literally killed Jesus for blasphemy.

    Like, he’s right, they don’t understand it. I went to Christian Sunday school. There wasn’t one lesson about taking health insurance from poor people and charging interest on school lunch debt.

    • LillyPip@lemmy.ca
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      11 months ago

      I’m not sure what distinction you’re trying to make. He’s saying these Christians don’t understand their religion, as in they’re not following what he thinks Christianity is supposed to be. That’s the very definition of the ‘no true Scotsman’ fallacy.

      You’re doing it too, honestly. What you learned in Sunday school doesn’t match how these republicans are interpreting it, so they’re not following the real teachings.

      I’m saying you can look through the history of the official stances of the Christian church and find many, many examples of sanctioned atrocities. You may not like it, but Christianity has never been what’s printed on the tin.

      • los_chill@programming.dev
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        11 months ago

        If we are going that road you could argue that much of the “Christian church” has split pretty far from Christ’s actual teachings.

        • LillyPip@lemmy.ca
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          11 months ago

          Sure. Or that the original teachings were all over the place to begin with, because it’s an amalgamation of various regional beliefs and stories meant to gain political and social control over areas it spread to, adopting and bastardising random beliefs it encountered. Because that’s what literally happened.

          Eventually the Catholic and Anglican churches decided which books/teachings would be ‘correct’ based on what whomever was in charge at the time wanted. There are many books that were included or excluded from the bible because they were convenient or inconvenient, and the end result was a weird, inconsistent mess. The Catholic Church’s official library has what’s now considered banned texts that were official canon a few centuries ago. What changed that made them wrong? Politics.

          And of course the three major Abrahamic religions can’t agree over whose interpretation is correct, to the point of genocide. But yeah, one sect of evangelical Christianity is ‘right’ such that we should all be subjected to it.

    • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      11 months ago

      Jesus wasn’t socialist, he literally said to leave to Caesar that which is Caesar’s. He wanted to part of government, and instead pointed people to the government of heaven.

      His message was for individuals to choose to help the poor on their own, not to use the government to force everyone to help the poor. The message was always about the individual, not the group, and it wasn’t until the Acts that we start to talk about the “church” and any kind of centralization. He said, “follow me,” not “organize yourselves into communes.”

      So no, I absolutely do not think Jesus was a socialist, he was the polar opposite of Trump. He shared a message of tolerance, love, and personal improvement, whereas Trump shares a message of intolerance, hate, and blaming others for your problems.

      • crapwittyname@lemm.ee
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        11 months ago

        You are mixing up socialism and communism. Fair enough, Jesus wasn’t a socialist, because he lived millennia before that particular political stance was coined, but the examples you give kind of actually support the argument that he would have been a socialist if he lived today/he espoused an early type of socialism. Paying taxes, helping the poor, individual responsibility; these are all things a modern day socialist would support. Organising into communes - not so much.
        Also, it seems you are suggesting Donald Trump is a socialist? If so you’ve completely misunderstood the meaning of any kind of socialism.

        • sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          11 months ago

          Jesus would’ve been closer to communist, which is a stateless society based on communal ownership. He asked how followers to eliminate personal possessions and follow him, presumably subsisting on the charity of others. That’s the spirit of communism.

          Socialism, on the other hand, is democratic ownership of the means of production. Jesus wanted no part in ownership of anything, much less socializing ownership of communal goods. He believed in following the law, but only so far as his legal and moral obligation went. He never discussed setting up poor houses, redistribution of wealth, or anything a socialist might push for, he instead urged his followers to follow his example in helping the poor.

          If we have to ascribe a political philosophy, he’s a libertarian who is morally opposed to personal ownership, but also opposed to forceful removal of ownership. He’d rather live destitute than force others to share, because this life is ephemeral and true rewards are in heaven.

          Trump

          No, Trump is not a socialist, he’s a narcissist. He would support a socialist policy if it meant he could get recognition for it (see COVID checks, which he insisted bear his name).

          Jesus, on the other hand, told people to not tell others he healed them (Luke 5:12-14). Jesus didn’t want recognition, he just wanted to do good and set a good example. That’s the sense that Trump is the opposite of Jesus, not wrt policy, but the examples they each set.

          And yeah, Trump would be a socialist if he thought that would get him into power. He doesn’t really care about policy, he cares about fame and money, and money only because it buys fame. Jesus rejected both from Satan (Matthew 4:1-11, esp verses 8-10):

          Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

          And he said to Him, “All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me.”

          Then Jesus said to him, “Away with you, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.’ ”

          Trump worships himself, Jesus calls others to worship his father.