If it turns out Hitler had some bad genes his relatives’ descendants will get a bad name. This is obviously a joke, but it’s actually true as well. They’ve all distanced themselves from the name Hitler, but surely some people know about their relation to Adolf. I guess the questions is: how bad is it when you’re grandfathers half-brother or whatever his DNA is public. There is a legitimate privacy concern there, that shouldn’t be too easily dismissed because ‘haha hitler & privacy’.
the question if you need relatives consent to make your dna public is interesting. I have my opinions, but the question of an historical dead figure has rights to privacy is another.
However, seeing if there’s an “evil” gene is both cartoonishly naive and smells of eugenics. Hitler would have approved said study.
His relatives actually decided to not have children collectively afaik.
They appeared to be fairly nice chaps - a friend of mine interviewed one of them 20 years ago for a uni research project.
I feel like you still haven’t explained what the privacy concern is
the same as with 23andme and other genetic analysis services
DNA is basically your identity. Your health, your ancestry, everything. But its also, not just you. Its your family, past and future. If we start talking the DNA of the dead, and Im pretty sure we already do as the dead have no rights, then at some point someone is going to challenge the right to privacy of the living in this area. After all, we’re all going to die sooner or later, so why not get that sweet, sweet data just now?
Basic harms would be health insurance. If a provider has your DNA, it might show that your great, great granny got cancer. And they use that data to increase your rates. Or worse, deny your treatment, because your granny had the same treatment, and it didnt work.
What about work? Your ancestor has his history of health issues, and so refuses to hire you because you might get that too.
DNA from you or your relatives can also be use to track you, identify you, connect you to certain locations.
But heres the big one. Cancer. Your DNA holds the key to curing cancer. Some company has your DNA, and using your DNA creates a cure for Cancer. They then make trillions of money off of it. And you get fuck all, even though it your DNA. You dont even get to say that it should be given away. Its theirs now.
Also, once a company has your DNA. They have it forever. That you and your family, easily profiled, tracked, and whatever else until the end of time. What if, at some point, some targets you or a descendant with a DNA targeted virus? Science fiction now, but maybe not in the future.
Basically, the damage that can be done is limitless.
But heres the big one. Cancer. Your DNA holds the key to curing cancer. Some company has your DNA, and using your DNA creates a cure for Cancer. They then make trillions of money off of it. And you get fuck all, even though it your DNA. You dont even get to say that it should be given away. Its theirs now.
Basically what happened to Henrietta Lacks
So what is the actual privacy concern though?
What I just spelled out to you…
Sorry but I just still don’t understand how any of that is related to the privacy concern?
Ok, say an insurance provider now has Hitler’s dna. And let’s say I live in the United states of corruption also. And I have a bad gene. What will they use Hitler’s dna on me to harm my privacy? I feel like I am missing something ? Am I supposed to infer a mecha-nano hitler clone drone or something similar will perform a multi stage cyber attack on my privacy?
You are missing something. The ability to read. Everything is spelled out for you in the post. READ IT AGAIN. And keep reading it until you get it.
For fuck sake… Genetists needs to read some social science. What is all with this making Hitler the biggest reason for the existence of Nazism and the occurrence of the Holocaust? This is why people believe that you can beat fascism with a vote, as if it is a leadership problem and not a complete social movement and social transformation problem
It’s both deeply essentialist, and insulting to people’s intelligence. If you’re planning on studying hitler’s DNA, who cares, knock yourself out. But it’s ridiculous to think all but the worst people are going to believe there’s an “evil” gene.
If you’re a scientist planning on cloning hitler, you have a lot more problems on your hands, and are obviously not pursuing any kind of scientific results and just want attention and deserve all the ridicule from other that idiots you will get.
What if it turns out Hitler saliva cures cancer, all you gotta do is make out with a Hitler clone? You know, like with lizards and limey disease.
Now I imagine limey disease. Prime symptom is talking like “Oi guvnor, u wot?”
I think he meant, bluey disease
I think I did read a recent paper outlining just such a case study.
Government and bureaucracy is the duct tape and glue we made to hold society together but actual societal change is a more natural force that is completely separate from government.
The whole study is weird. Do they think there is a correlation between his DNA and the horrible acts he did? Are we going to start rounding up anyone with that genetic marker? Put them in camps?
Sounds like one step away from finding another reason for the Government to round up marginalized groups.
Hitler had it, Walt Disney had it.
I rest my case
Does Tutankhamun’s DNA need consent?
Disregarding the fact that he was evil, Im not sure historical figures qualify for the same rights as we average people do. I think at most, we should respect what they respected, and Hitler did not respect privacy, so get fucked nazi, your DNA is ours.
Someone who was alive in the last hundred years may well have identifiable descendents or cousins. Someone from 3,350 years ago, less likely.
Since we often tend to consider the next of kin or manager of an estate to be the legal entity able to make certain decisions following the death of the person in question, whether there is a known/discoverable agent to ask may be relevant in this kind of matter.
What privacy do you guys think your dna has???
While im alive? Don’t touchy, I don’t even want people taking pictures of me without permission let alone a strand of hair or skin flakes.
But once im dead who cares, not my problem anymore.
I know until the sexbots arrive that offer free simulated* sex for new subscribers
Just what I wanted, a true to life Hitler sexbot.
Actually now that I think about it that would make a banger anime.
Your entire family tree
Your dna contains that information, yes. But what is the privacy concern
Ew, undersmencht dna
Why are we even talking about Hitler’s DNA? Out of all the news why this. We are seriously weird.
Researchers sequenced his DNA recently from a bloodstained couch cushion, we’ve been getting glimpses into it lately.
Also he’s dead, why do dead people deserve anything, any rights? What harm happens to Hitler? He’s dead. Did we ask dinosaurs to look at their DNA, for all we know they were sentient? The whole argument is stupid.
In the case of DNA, because it’s shared with relatives and descendants who might be still alive. In Hitler’s case, that might not be that much of an issue, but you were talking about dead people in general.
If your parents are dead, and thus they get DNA sampled, that information gained is good enough to positively identify DNA traces of all their children.
Remember how they caught the Golden State Killer? They put a DNA sample into the genetics website GEDmatch and found a few of his distant relatives. They then used publicly available family history records to construct a family tree that included all of these matches. That allowed them to narrow down the suspects to two people. One of them could be ruled out by DNA testing a close relative, which left the last one. They then took a DNA sample from his car, which was a match and that’s how they got him.
Using that kind of stuff to catch killers is likely a good use of the technology, but there’s quite a few nefarious things a state could do with a DNA database of all dead people.
You bring up a lot of good points.
Apparently there are some rights that exist beyond death. Currently HIPAA protection after death for medical privacy only extends fifty years.
So it does appear the argument is pretty moot.
Here is an interesting read on the matter.
https://aeon.co/essays/do-we-have-a-right-to-medical-privacy-after-we-are-dead
When there is a crime scene, the place is searched for fingerprints, hair, fabrics, anything that could find the suspect. No “privacy” is given, because it’s a fucking crime scene. Hitler murdered people, that’s a crime scene. He forfeited any right to privacy when he forfeited his humanity.
The whole post is ridiculous.
I may be very stupid about it and not know the normative, but what is the safest option for me is the following. No informed consent -> no research on any samples from the patient.
Does not matter how important your research is. I myself would like to be informed about that stuff. I may decide to donate my organs to research after I’m dead, but I have decided that.
Because caring for our dead is a very human trait. In my state, a housing development was put on hold after the bones of indigenous people were found there and they had a connection to people claiming descent from them making the whole thing a family affair.
How did they know they were indigenous bones? Was dead person’s consent asked for to check if dead person wanted to be identified as ancestor of somebody?
I mean i understand caring for our dead, but anytime it’s a matter of consent, its always for the living descendants, HIPPA protects medical records for 50 years, but they’re generally protected so the living descendents don’t feel impact for anything that maybe damaging.
And talking about laws I know it’s a tangent, but the reason copyright exist after death is so that revenue can be enjoyed by living descendents. Laws are not necessarily sensible a lot of times.
They could probably tell fairly quickly by the age of the ground they were found in. Colonisation occurred less than 200 years ago making it fairly trivial to understand if they were older. The indigenous had also maintained stories describing the area as a burial ground.
For the living indigenous its a tangible link to their pre colonisation culture, thus making it incredibly important to them. After they’ve had so much of their land, language, beliefs, foods and culture has been taken away from them, I’m sure you can understand why preserving the links that they still have is important to them
oh hey i live in a neighborhood like that. my entire city is on an indian burial ground. every time they develop land, they survey, catalog, and gather the artifacts before placing them on land no one is supposed to know where but it’s by the park.
Under that argument you could grind up the dead and use them for fertilizer. I guess if you’re being 100% practical it makes sense, but humans have a certain sentimentality for their loved ones, dead or otherwise, and so don’t tend to like it when you use the corpses in a way contrary to the wishes of the estate.
Presumably the insights are just that he was a human and not a space alien.
What are they looking for exactly?
They are trying to track down the genocide gene. Then we can screen all of our politicians for it
The Nazis couldn’t have done their genocide without the support of thousands of people, all who made the decision to actively support it for their personal gain, believes, or just plain complacency. What is a genocide supporting gene in one time is a normal suburban life gene in another time.
Yes, most people would love Hitler’s work if it wasn’t associated with Hitler/ Germany won the ww2. I fucking hate humanity.
That is not what I’m saying. More, most people won’t interfere or even support someone doing things like Hitler. You don’t have to love your boring 9-to-5 job organising the maintenance of the trains to the camps, but if you do it because not doing it involves inconvenience… Yeah.
That sounds the kdrama Mouse where they find the serial killer gene, but just because you had it doesn’t mean you’d become one. Sounds like a terrible future and another layer of future discrimination for things beyond people’s control that might just be a carrier.
That sounds like latent serial killer genes talking
Damn you caught me!
People keep shouting Idiocracy.
I reckon Gaataca is the more likely outcome.
An excuse for the camps to continue Hitler’s work. How is everyone stupid enough not to figure it out?
Just a weird topic especially with all this neo-nazism happening in the US government.
I am not saying it isn’t newsworthy at all of course. It is just the timing is suspect.
Doesn’t a criminal give up their right to freedom by doing crimes?
So why wouldn’t a war criminal give up their right to privacy by doing war crimes?
that sounds good until laws are weaponized against freedom and normal people
but dont even go that far. you are now a criminal for saying something mean to a public figure on the internet, for jaywalking, for making a mistake in reporting your taxes, …
Uh, IDK about anywhere else, but in the US prisoners are supposed to retain their bodily autonomy even while imprisoned. the actual reality is that that is often ignored by the government, but that’s what the law says, at least.
Sure they still have rights.
But not their right to freedom. That is why they are in prison. They aren’t allowed to leave.
Ok, but only to an extent. Prisoners 100% get fingerprinted. Not sure if they collect their DNA too, but I wouldn’t be at all surprised; to the point where I already assume they do.
I know for a fact that certain places now mandate collection of dna for many crimes.
Is it already proven that they are criminals or do you want to remove someone right in order to prove they are criminals?
Rights of people are regularly taken away to prove they are criminal.
Searching peoples homes for evidence is probably the most common way.
It’s also proven that Hitler was one of the worst human beeings ever to walk the earth.
It’s also proven that Hitler was one of the worst human beeings ever to walk the earth
That’s only caused we haven’t searched the right home yet.
Who is harmed by this? No one living. Maybe you could argue Hitler has some right to not have his remains disturbed, but DNA testing isn’t very invasive and we do it at crime scenes without consent all the time, so it’s minor even if relevant.
What could we learn? Nothing of value. Even if there is some “psychopath gene” or “genocide gene” you’d need 100s of examples to show the effect and far easier to just pick such candidates from living, diagnosed people who can consent.
So then should we do it? Probs not. No real reason to, even though there’s little reason not to.
They will probably use Hitler’s pseudoscience to start camps for psychological minorities. Where have we heard of that before?
Do dead people have rights? 🤔
They ain’t go no souls.
Can’t dance neither. That has major friendship implications
According to the GOP, since the dead pay no taxes to America, they have no rights.
Fetuses don’t pay taxes either and yet the GOP are really interested in making sure they have rights.
Other dead people have no right to privacy, especially dead famous people
This means release the Epstein files.
Data protection only covers the living IIRC.
“But who prays for Satan? Who, in eighteen centuries, has had the common humanity to pray for the one sinner that needed it most?” Mark Twain
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Just ask whoever saved his brain to ask permission
