A good in-depth discussion of media bias in political reporting, or why is it that Biden voters are encouraged to understand an empathize with Trump voters but Trump voters are never asked to understand Biden voters?
As a liberal, I don’t need to idolize my president. I don’t want to have a beer with them. I don’t buy Democratic President merch.
I do want them to be competent. I do want them to respect the rule of law. I do want them to be truthful though I understand politics means they sometimes aren’t. I want them to govern for the good of all, even conservatives that didn’t vote for them. I want them to respect history and science, rather than spouting bullshit conspiracy theories with zero basis in fact.
By those criteria, Biden has been as good a president as I could hope for.
Trumpers just seem to care that Trump hates the people they hate. They seem to love the bullshit he spouts; the endless lies, the conspiracy theory nonsense, all of it.
I think I understand Trumpers well enough, without reaching out and trying to understand their point of view. If they could coherently form complete sentences that didn’t involve regurgitating Trump lies or rightwing media conspiracy nonsense, I might try — but they can’t and don’t, so it’s a waste of time. Two groups who can’t agree on the difference between up and down might as well be speaking different languages, so, just no.
It’s more basic than he hates the right people. Trumpets love trump because he’s a bully. He makes people upset.
That’s just how authoritarians work. The reason the other Republicans are failing at the primary is they all appear weak. To ACTUALLY take down Trump, a Republican candidate needs to out bully him. They need to call him an orange asswipe.
But they won’t because that will upset trumpets. And that’s why they are doomed to lose the primary. Trump can call their wives ugly and they’ll just take it for fear of upsetting his mob.
If you love a politician, you are in a cult. I voted for Joe Biden but I think he’s basically a Republican, and wish the democratic party would field a candidate who is better. But this is politics. You don’t trow up your hands like a baby and demand better, you work with what you have.
That and the narrative of “lesser of two evils” creates a race to the bottom. We have Biden because there’s no real incentive to get good candidates, when all we have to do is find one mildly less shitty than the alternative.
Sanders tried that but until we dissolve the DNC (and for that matter the RNC), technically those picks will always occur by a pair of privately managed entities.
Privately managed entities? They’re organizations literally made up of elected officials. In some states, voters directly elect their states members, as in anyone can run to be a member, and in others the members are chosen by other elected officials. Either way, there isn’t anything private about it.
Might want to read this. This is what I was getting at that there’s no public accountability in a supposedly public process.
Updooting for “the Liberal attitude toward democracy oliticians”, but I really would have liked to have a beer with Bill Clinton and Barack Obama. In addition to being good national leaders, they appeared to be good people to know socially
I’d like to be at a dinner with the Obama’s and the Bush’s because I think the conversation would be fascinating and likely hilarious. I think that you can disagree with Bush’s politics and think he was a terrible president but still recognize that he isn’t a total asshole of a person.
… I want them to govern for the good of all, even conservatives that didn’t vote for them. I want them to respect history and science, rather than spouting bullshit conspiracy theories with zero basis in fact.
By those criteria, Biden has been as good a president as I could hope for.
here’s an article going over biden spouting bullshit conspiracy theories with zero basis in fact and providing shitty governance for lgbtq people by singling them out for political gain: https://www.dailywire.com/news/biden-1973-gay-federal-employees-security-risk-frank-camp.
there are many more examples from in his 2020 campaign that prove biden’s a shitty establishment politician that still stands by his bullshit racist, homophobic, and classicist conspiracy beliefs to this day.
trumpers are no different than you; they’re simply operating w a different style of ignorance.
An article about someone’s opinions from 50 years ago is not a valid criticism when those opinions have adapted with time. This is just like arguing that Republicans don’t have racist policies since Lincoln abolished slavery. Could Biden do more to be more progressive yes but this is not a good argument for that stance.
he still stands by this decision and defended it during his 2020 campaign.
Then link that article. Sodomy laws are in the books in most states into the early 2000s, being an LGBTQ ally in the 70s was rare. Growth and allyship now are much more important than being bigoted 50 years ago. Personal growth and improvement is a cornerstone of progressive ideology. I will always have patience for people who are trying to improve and understand and that means that some people are going to be starting the journey at a dark place.
these engagements always go the same way, so here’s a copy/paste from somewhere else:
since you’re clearly digging in your heels; i’m going to try to undercut your next arguments since they are always the same three from the deeply ignorant liberal crowd:
- biden recently defended his decisions on all three [DOMA; don’t ask, don’t tell; undischargable student loan debt] plus multiple more shitty decisions; so it doesn’t matter how long ago he said it or made those laws.
- biden refused to change his mind all the way up until his presidential campaign and has a solid history of changing his mind but only once it becomes politically convenient for him; so he didn’t “evolve” or get better, he just knows that trump is weaker on this topic and uses your ignorance about his past of truly horrific anti-lgbtq/black/poor history to get your vote.
Additionally: no, dunking on gays for easy politically points in the past wasn’t popular, many politicians (eg bernie sanders) never did it.
- his beliefs are the reason why he’s not bothering to improve anything, especially on the student loan debt. also: yes there are many things he can do even though congress is trying to block him; but he won’t do it no matter what. (google these too)
My guy you still haven’t answered the question. All I said was to just show me the recent article to back up your claim. You made a specific statement now show me the receipts. Don’t tell me a bunch of tangentially related, unsubstantiated statements then end with telling me to do my research.
you’re steering the conversation away from the matter at hand; sodomly laws have little to do w what i said.
solid history of changing his mind but only once it becomes politically convenient for him
I love this argument. You mean to tell me he only changed his mind when coincidentally so did a majority of other Americans?!?! What a fucking scandal. Have you gone to the papers?
phillaholic 6•
solid history of changing his mind but only once it becomes politically convenient for himI love this argument. You mean to tell me he only changed his mind when coincidentally so did a majority of other Americans?!?! What a fucking scandal. Have you gone to the papers?
by that same logic trump is just as good because he too changed his mind when he ran for president.
Yes, even Bernie Sanders has evolved to be more accepting of lgbt rights over time:
Sometimes politics is ugly, sometimes you need to compromise, sometimes you need to act in the direction of the majority. Sometimes you’re even influenced by the trends of society
Here is an article by a billionaire funded website that offered $50 million to Stephen Crowder explaining that Biden is bad.
[checks notes]
Seems legit. I mean, how could it not be?
here’s another one that shows that your thought process is heavily flawed: https://thegavoice.com/news/national/sanders-urges-voters-to-look-at-bidens-votes-for-dont-ask-doma/
Which argument? I think Joe Biden is a Republican, but he isn’t a fascist. Biden is responsible for Clarence Thomas, the Crime Bill, and most of the wars in the middle east. He was anti-gay marriage, and probably still is being an old grandpa who palled around with white nationalists.
He promised to not drill on public lands, and then opened up public lands for drilling! But he did invest the most ever in climate crisis. So I guess he doesn’t suck?)
He sucks. But he isn’t trying to destroy America from within. So there’s my vote. A guy who legit sucks or a fascist who has promised to use the DOJ to hunt down his enemies. Who has promised to take over elections and find votes. Who lies like he breaths because lying is the tactic of a bully.
It is the difference between getting shot in the face or getting punched in the face. I don’t want either, but if you make me pick, I’ll bloody well take getting punched.
Here’s another one that shows that your thought process is heavily flawed:
“Joe Biden is a friend of mine”. – Bernie Sanders
Biden rules dude. Take your Trump trash paid for by billionaire elites to trick you into giving them gigantic tax cuts and GTFO
“Joe Biden is a friend of mine”. – Bernie Sanders
Trump voters are never asked to understand Biden voters?
They can’t. They can’t understand anything outside of their tiny sphere. Everything else angers and terrifies them. Otherwise they wouldn’t be conservatives.
So there’s no point in asking them. It’s like asking a turtle to fly.
They can’t. They can’t understand anything outside of their tiny sphere. Everything else angers and terrifies them. Otherwise they wouldn’t be conservatives. So there’s no point in asking them. It’s like asking a turtle to fly.
being an elder millennial has afforded me to opportunity to experience biden’s trump like behaviors that he signed into law and watching w fascination that his current supporters are just as willfully ignorant as trump supporters.
the real mind boggling thing is that all of biden and trump’s homophobic, racists, and classicist sins are both alike and easy to find with a 30 second google search; but both groups continue to ascribe values to their politician despite it being very easy to disprove and each person will dig in their heels when you point it out to them.
conservative trump supporters are no different than liberal biden supporters in that neither group is aware of what biden has done (or what trump wants to do) and both groups are fervently willfully ignorant about it so long as their politician wins.
New account made 3 hours ago? Check.
Comments almost exclusively on political threads? Check.
When doing so, almost exclusively makes “both sides are the same” comments? Check.How’s the trolling going, friend?
New account made 3 hours ago? Check. Comments almost exclusively on political threads? Check. When doing so, almost exclusively makes “both sides are the same” comments? Check.
How’s the trolling going, friend?
i used to believe reddit was the king dumbass echo chambers; now i know that the fediverse makes reddit same sane and reasonable by comparison.
What Biden supporters? I don’t know any Biden supporters. Does anyone here know any Biden supporters? I’m voting for Biden because he’s not a Republican, not because I support him.
Do you really think Biden won the election in 2016 because people liked him?
Depends on your definition of supporter. I voted for him in the primary. Didn’t donate, put up a sign, wear a sticker, or base my life on him or his candidacy in any measurable way.
Yeah I mean…I generally think he’s doing a pretty good job. I wouldn’t say I am aligned to him much beyond that or I have any ideological attachment to the guy, but yeah he’s at least helped steer away (mostly through appointing the right people to the right roles) from what could have been a pretty bad recession and his foreign policy handling of Russia and China particularly around Taiwan and Ukraine are aligned with my views. My only hesitation towards voting for him again is his age and I would prefer someone younger at this point who isn’t likely to die on the job.
I’m a Biden supporter. He’s done a pretty good job for a moderate, in an extremely difficult political environment. He’s orders of magnitude better than other major contenders. Now that we’ve recovered somewhat from the dark ages, we just need to find a good liberal/progressive candidate to take the country forward
Do I have merch? Of course not. Do I idolize him? No. Do I think he’s perfect? Far from it. Do I salivate over his every utterance? Of course not. Would I follow him into tyranny? You’ve got to be kidding
What Biden supporters? I don’t know any Biden supporters. Does anyone here know any Biden supporters? I’m voting for Biden because he’s not a Republican, not because I support him.
Do you really think Biden won the election in 2016 because people liked him?
i think you meant 2020 and, yes, he’s got a cult following, especially on the fediverse who defend him no matter what and all of the exchanges start like this.
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This is just plain bizarre. This is some IMAX level projection from an obvious trump troll. There is no Biden cult, sorry to burst your desperate and pathetic “both sides” fantasy.
i hate trump and it’s so much MUCH worse and embarrassing when someone from the same political side as me speaks from such thorough ignorance about it.
do yourself a favor and spend 30 seconds on googling biden’s stances on doma, dont ask don’t tell and the student loan crisis; to get a glimpse at how he thinks about marginalized/at-risk groups and how’s he’s used them for decades for his political gain.
since you’re clearly digging in your heels; i’m going to try to undercut your next arguments since they are always the same three from the deeply ignorant liberal crowd:
- biden recently defended his decisions on all three plus multiple more shitty decisions; so it doesn’t matter how long ago he said it or made those laws.
- biden refused to change his mind all the way up until his presidential campaign and has a solid history of changing his mind but only once it becomes politically convenient for him; so he didn’t “evolve” or get better, he just knows that trump is weaker on this topic and uses your ignorance about his past of truly horrific anti-lgbtq/black/poor history to get your vote.
Additionally: no, dunking on gays for easy politically points in the past wasn’t popular, many politicians (eg bernie sanders) never did it.
- his beliefs are the reason why he’s not bothering to improve anything, especially on the student loan debt. also: yes there are many things he can do even though congress is trying to block him; but he won’t do it no matter what. (google these too)
Biden […] has a solid history of changing his mind but only once it becomes politically convenient for him
You say that like it’s a bad thing. Biden has sat himself in the center of his voterbase his entire career.
I see that as being a good thing for a democratically elected politician.
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Biden […] has a solid history of changing his mind but only once it becomes politically convenient for himYou say that like it’s a bad thing. Biden has sat himself in the center of his voterbase his entire career.
I see that as being a good thing for a democratically elected politician.
by that same logic trump is just as good because he too changed his mind when he ran for president.
Funny, I googled what he did about student loan relief and it looks like the Trump-packed Supreme Court struck down the biggest part of that. What are you suggesting he could have done, but didn’t?
Source: https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/student-loans/joe-biden-student-loans
number one search on google; i doubt you even tried: https://thecollegeinvestor.com/42272/alternative-paths-to-student-loan-forgiveness/
i could have clicked on “i’m feeling lucky” to get this so i no longer believe that you’re arguing in good faith.
He doesn’t have a cult following. I am an example of a Biden supporter and believe me it’s like paper thin in terms of its depth. I think he’s done a generally decent job, which is a far cry from what we had before him. We’re not likely to get an alternative in 2024 so I would support him again, but prefer someone younger who shares similar views. I’m the guy everyone on all sides seems to hate: center left, or a right leaning liberal…sorry
You and me both
It’s not hard to understand Trump voters. They love the way Trump is portrayed on Fox “News,” and they love licking boots. Getting them to understand that a convicted rapist, six-time bankrupted, twice-divorced irreligious grifter makes a bad president can be quite challenging.
Hell, you could still be a good president and be all those things. “Irreligious” is a point in favor for me, compared to having Preacher Pence in office.
The self-enrichment, abuse of power, and attempt to overthrow the government are the problem.
Preacher Pence
Pence is a known Christian nationalist. People aren’t as afraid of him as they should be, just because he seems quiet.
Dominionist, more specifically, and very supportive of the Quiverfull movement, which we should all be concerned about.
These people want the Duggars as the example of the perfect American family, pedophiles and all.
The biggest shock/challenge to me is how many would explicitly be okay with the example set for their children or acceptance of such as a prospective in-law. You ask any of those chucklefucks if they’d let their daughter date a jackass like a Trump clone, they’d almost guaranteedly balk…unless they are the sort to admit they’re exactly the same. And those would be the sorts who would encourage their sons to act the same.
Why should I put who the president is as a person above any relevant political aspects?
Bad people can’t be trusted to follow through on their promised political aspects more than they cause other issues
A good in-depth discussion of media bias in political reporting, or why is it that Biden voters are encouraged to understand an empathize with Trump voters but Trump voters are never asked to understand Biden voters?
Same reason why during BLM, lots of media showcasing the looting or police brutality. But 90% of protests were just people standing there politely and cops standing on the other side.
Media wants blood for ratings.
Are there Biden voters or just Anti-Trump voters? The Biden Administration has been dealing with inflation that just now is leveling out. While his policies match what the majority of voters want, the voters don’t want him. The downside is there is no one better to choose. Essentially it is meh Biden is better than anything the GOP has to offer.
There’s been places that I really dislike Biden on, but overall he’s been a pretty good president
I have no problem with Biden. He has had a good administration. The media likes shiny objects though. This is once again why we need the Fairness Doctrine back with a 21st century spin on it including all media.
I obviously don’t speak for everybody but my Biden vote in 2020 was very much a not-Trump vote. And if Trump end up against Biden in 2024 I will make that same vote a second time. Like you said, I’ll take a meh Biden over the crazies in the GQP.
I’d vote for Biden over anyone the GOP is running.
I’d vote for Biden over anyone the GOP is running.
I’ll die of old age before I vote R for any position at any level. They can’t possibly reform themselves enough to be trusted in my lifetime.
If I see an R candidate running who doesn’t seem like a whackjob I’m going to assume it’s a trojan horse. They spent the past several years trying to convince me that they are a bunch of crazy bigots who will destroy civil liberties, destroy our educational system, and ban any history or books that they deem as undesirable. I have chosen to believe them.
Gotta watch out for the trojan horses running on the Democrat side as well. RFK Jr. being the perfect example.
Agree, but he’s blatantly obvious.
If RFK is a trojan horse he’s made of glass. But yes always be wary of these things
Sinema is a better example.
Is Sinema running for President? Because that would be a hilarious trash fire of a campaign to watch.
The Democrats went from racist southerners in 1960s to the modern progressives who literally drafted Civil Rights laws by the end of that decade.
The only thing that’s certain in politics is change. Its surprising how quickly viewpoints can change, even for large, established parties.
The Democrats went from racist southerners in 1960s to the modern progressives who literally drafted Civil Rights laws by the end of that decade.
I’ve chosen this link about the Southern Strategy because it will both debunk the overly simplistic view of it that is normally put forth, and also will debunk the usual attempts by conservatives to say it didn’t happen.
I’ve cherrypicked this bit from its closing paragraph because I think it gets at the meat of this argument, but I also acknowledge here that the overall point of the article is that we can’t ahem blame the current state of the Republican party entirely on the Southern Strategy and racism.
While the claim that the appeal of the parties on the basis of racial issues switched following the passage of the Civil Rights Act is true enough, there is a greater truth that conservatives who resist this claim often make which deserves to be acknowledged: the South changed its racial attitudes over time. It has changed, just as America has changed. Whether its overarching racial culture has changed nearly enough to meet the higher aspirations of our ideals of racial equality today is a separate question. But the South that the Republican Party represents today is not the South of George Wallace and the neo-segregationists.
Edited to add: And also, if Republicans stop being the party of hurting people I’ll stop treating them like the party of hurting people. I stand by my original statement though. It’s so exceptionally unlikely as to be within the realm of fiction that they will do such a thing during my natural lifespan.
It’s more like parties switched bases; see Nixon’s Southern Strategy:
As the civil rights movement and dismantling of Jim Crow laws in the 1950s and 1960s visibly deepened existing racial tensions in much of the Southern United States, Republican politicians such as presidential candidate Richard Nixon and Senator Barry Goldwater developed strategies that successfully contributed to the political realignment of many white, conservative voters in the South who had traditionally supported the Democratic Party. It also helped to push the Republican Party much more to the right relative to the 1950s. By winning all of the south a presidential candidate could obtain the presidency with minimal support elsewhere.
The article addresses that. Because the media doesn’t report on Biden supporters, the public gets the impression that no one likes him much. I also think approval ratings are not contextualized well, because you rarely see how many people who disapprove of Biden’s presidency are right-wing and how many are leftists.
From a personal perspective, while I was not a reluctant Biden voter (would have never voted for Trump), he was far from the top of my list in the 2020 primary. I think, considering the obstacles he’s faced, Joe has been a much better president that I expected. That’s in spite of Republicans ratfucking student loan relief and robust electoral reform.
He’s been actually one of the best we’ve had. They’re never going to be perfect since you can’t be an angel and get to be president, you gotta make some deals with the devils.
Not an American, but I think Biden has been the best US president since at least Clinton, and perhaps even since Carter.
(Although I do agree he is too old… Does the democratic party really not have a younger equally capable candidate?)
Obama was a very popular and charismatic guy, but I think he kind of squandered his popularity and failed to achieve results.
Obama wasn’t successful with the ACA, or Iraq/Afghanistan or the Supreme Court. He didn’t even achieve a minimum wage increase after 2009. Didn’t tackle wallstreet.
He should have been a bit more confrontational and twisted some arms to achieve results.
Meanwhile Biden is just steamrolling a lot of successes with a razer thin Senate majority.
We’re on the same page I think, he’s done some amazing things and no one talks about it. Clinton wasn’t a great person but he was a good president. Carter was a great person but had some issues with being too nice for politics imo. He couldn’t make any deals with the devils but he can definitely sleep at night. We have so many corrupt people in our upper government that I don’t wish that job on anyone.
I hope this guy runs someday: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_Swalwell
Swalwell certainly seems like a dude whose head is attached to his ass, a rare trait in DC.
The episode where McCarthy said “Call me a coward again and I’ll kick your ass,” to which Swalwell replied “You. Are. A. Coward,” is also pretty endearing, despite his repetition of a gendered insult. (The word wasn’t coward)
He was great during the hearings and trials as well, he seems like a real dude.
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I also think approval ratings are not contextualized well, because you rarely see how many people who disapprove of Biden’s presidency are right-wing and how many are leftists.
I’m the latter
I was an anti trump voter in the last go around, but this time I’m voting FOR Biden. He’s done a lot with a bare minimum Senate majority and a hostile supreme court. And I love his unconditional support of Ukraine.
My vote for Biden was an anything but trump vote, but given Biden’s current record as president he has my vote again.
Still not my first choice but we live in a first past the post voting system so gotta take what you can get.
Biden’s team has handled the war in Ukraine extremely well, building up our European strategic alliances to a level we haven’t seen in decades while avoiding disastrous escalation. A terrible situation but I think he’s handled it better than, say, a first-term Obama or Clinton (let alone GWB) would have.
IRA & debt ceiling pwnage show he has skilled people working congress too.
On the minus side, he appointed Merrick Garland, who has been absolutely the wrong man for the job.
There is no one better to choose because the media and the DNC keep telling us there is no one better to choose and any time a possible person is mentioned everybody just says “They don’t have Biden’s name recognition so they can’t win.”.
Who isn’t being talked about that is registered and better?
Serious liberal candidates aren’t going to run against a sitting President.
Duverger’s Law and US is still not there yet in the Overton window. I vote progressive to help aid in Overton window shift from something more reasonable and social democracy is arguably the system that makes the most sense.
I vote progressive to help aid in Overton window shift
A wise strategy since voting is the only way to shift the Overton window.
Who? The two main other candidates are insane pseudoscience and conspiracy theorist trash. And also basically right wingers anyways.
You must be new to the internet.
There’s nothing people like more than rehashing the 2016 and 2020 elections
the voters don’t want him.
Biden was literally chosen by the voters.
Are there Biden voters or just Anti-Trump voters?
Biden rules. Absolutely nobody could have done a better job than Biden on a whole range of issues: Ukraine, jobs, reducing inflation without triggering a recession, covid, student loans, getting liberal policies thru a razor thin Dem majority etc. He has done an outstanding job on all of those things.
Brainwashed Trumpers are in such bad shape they’d literally need professional cult deprogrammers… is that still a thing? They are utterly impossible to reason with.
Professional cult deprigranners was never a real career. They tended to be church councilers.
Steven Hassan begs to differ
I didn’t say that there weren’t legitimate people in the field, i said many of the original era of them were not legitimate people. They were either pastors or others affiliated with a church who largely were kidnapping women and holding them hostage at the behest of the parents, who were almost always members of the congregation.
Most of the deprogramming going on nowadays is done by volunteers in the digital spaces, and the time and resources invested is going mostly to fighting post-Qanon and white supremicist cells, because that is where the majority of group violence is coming from.
Believe me, i wish our problems could be solved by taking kids hostage until they renounce religious/political extremism but that is not the case.
Hysterical spelling aside for a bit…
Deprogramming one cult with another seems counterproductive.
Racism. It is because of racism.
It propaganda. Propaganda creates new racists. They just race bait to get voters to vote R which in turn “creates” racists as they “learn” so much they didn’t know before, especially when they get on the “affirmative action is racisim against whites!” After that they feel vindictive, they need to get back at those who are keeping the white man down! It’s all gross.
I voted for Biden as the least worst of the only two bad options, as I have in every general election I have participated in in both Congressional and Presidential races.
I’ve only had the opportunity to vote for politicians I actually have confidence in the ability to govern in primaries, and I could first vote in 2004.
I’m almost certain I will die without ever having the opportunity to vote for anything less than a proud crony capitalism sycophant in a general election.
I believed in Obama when I voted for him. I was sorely disappointed when he continued The Patriot Act, among other things. He was still world’s better than his predecessor though.
He meant well, and I acknowledge that. But he was and is a fervent institutionalist that doesn’t entertain the notion that our Constitutional framework is failing or has failed. He’s a true believer, which is why he spent all of his political capital and almost both of his terms trying to appease his proudly intransigent opposition, trying to play an honorable game by honorable rules that had been abandoned long before he became a Senator.
I think this is where Biden’s decades of congressional experience shows. He does the same bipartisan dog-and-pony show that Obama did, but Biden has been more effective at actually getting legislation passed.
Experience is more valuable, but less flash than Hope. I Guarantee if we sat through a Bernie Sanders Presidency you’d have supporters upset that he didn’t do anything he said he’d do. These people aren’t elected to be dictator. People need to agree and compromise. It bothers me how like minded the far sides of each party are in the notion that compromise is a dirty word.
I don’t have any evidence for this but purely speculation on my part: racism can explain a good amount of that. Biden has in the 90s voted for “tough on crime bills”, he is the definition of political establishment, and is a white man from Wilmington. Obama definitely is not textbook underpriveleged but he doesn’t have those points that biden does
He was President during Occupy and helped throw wet towels.
I voted for Biden as the least worst of the only two bad options, as I have in every general election I have participated in in both Congressional and Presidential races.
and that’s all you’re ever going to get w this system; let it fail.
No, I’m going to get progress over regression. I’m not going to blow up the lives of myself and the next generation because it’s not perfect. What a shit take.
Fascism doesn’t emphasize
A very good article and the author answers their own question. Because they’re the “big tent party,” democrats support a spectrum of views and compromises, albeit largely unified on some issues (the author notes a few widely accepted positions across the party, like abortion)
Whereas Trump voters are in lockstep in their hatred and fear mongering (let’s not pretend trump had or has any policy positions). You’ll find those same views at the Iowa primaries or at that diner in Ohio. It’s simply easier to summarize this relatively simplistic and basically apolitical view, so journalists took the easy out. Short, punchy articles with increasingly excessive “hot takes” got them clicks and now here we are
Wait, I know this one –
It’s because “Trump voters” have shown themselves to be lunatic conspiracy theorists prone to violence, and “Biden voters” have not.
Doesn’t get them? Or just doesn’t like them?
Biden voters just want a sane person in office. Chaos sells, and most media is profit-driven.
I mean no shit. Biden is possibly one of the most generic establishment presidents possible. It’s not exactly a mystery why people voted for him.
Meh, he’s actually surpassed my expectations. He’s by no means perfect, but in some areas he’s been shockingly progressive.
Mind you, I’d much rather a super progressive take the throne, but I’ll take a Biden instead.
My argument to progressives who were reluctant to vote for Biden was that he would sign progressive legislation if congress could pass it. I think that’s been borne out.
Meh, he’s actually surpassed my expectations. He’s by no means perfect, but in some areas he’s been shockingly progressive.
My expectations were negligible, and yes, they’ve been surpassed. I have to say, I really thought we were gonna get refried Clintonian politics and what we’ve got represent an improvement. I wish it would have been Bernie, but if this gets the job done, fine by me.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
CONSERVATIVE AND MAINSTREAM MEDIA don’t agree on much, but one point of consensus is that everyone should work harder to understand Trump supporters.
A common style of this coverage is the safari to “Trump Country,” in which journalists from various outlets, most of whom live in big metropolitan areas, go to a rural community or Rust Belt town and talk to Trump voters, often white, working-class men in diners.
A great example is a May 2019 New York Times story titled “There’s No Boom in Youngstown, but Blue-Collar Workers Are Sticking With Trump.” It’s such a well-trod trope that it’s inspired parodies and running jokes.
Going beyond those attempts to understand Trump voters are two recent arguments that got attention on social media.
First, in his New York Times column early this month, David Brooks argued that “elites” have been “behaving in ways that make Trumpism inevitable.” In particular, Brooks writes, “it’s easy to understand why people in less-educated classes would conclude that they are under economic, political, cultural and moral assault—and why they’ve rallied around Trump as their best warrior against the educated class.” Brooks encouraged his readers to imagine what the last half-century of American history looks like from the vantage of those non-elites.
“He’s clearly quite racist,” Yglesias conceded, “but I also think he’s written some good pieces and it’s important to read conservatives.”
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
ITT: A bunch of liberals who think they’re much more open-minded than Trump-supporters, making blanket statements and stereotype-fomenting comments about Trump-supporters. This is the real-world equivalent of Obi-Wan Kenobi complaining that “Only a Sith deals in absolutes!” and it’s just as cringe-worthy.
As a Trump-hating liberal, I won’t pretend to understand what makes Trumpers love him. I admit, I’ve tried, and it eludes me. They don’t seem like bad people to me, but their political views are often based on faulty information, they have a misplaced distrust of government institutions, and some of them seem to think that science requires faith, because laypeople have to “trust the scientists.” So, I don’t get them, and I think it’s an important question, but one thing’s clear: they’re not evil, cartoonish Bond minions. Those people here, pushing these caricatures of them, are just trying to make themselves feel better in the face of their own failure to understand their compatriots. They don’t like not having an explanation, like all pattern-seeking primates, and prefer a bad explanation to none. It’s intellectually lazy and deserves downvoting.
Meh. Republicans spent the past several years trying their best to convince me that they are a bunch of crazy bigots who will destroy civil liberties, destroy our educational system, and ban any history or books that they deem as undesirable. I have chosen to believe them.
Those Republican voters who claim not to be those things are still voting for and supporting people who are.
What else do I need to understand?
What else do I need to understand?
Why they’re acting the way they are. Your explanation is “they’re crazy bigots.” Well, their explanation for your political alignment is you’re a freedom-hating communist. So your explanation of them has all the nuance and intellectual strength that theirs does if you.
But hey, you can’t find it in yourself to rise above that bullshit, I’m not sure I can help you.
The difference is that it’s very easy to point to examples of them destroying civil liberties (abortion), education (defunding schools), and banning books (homosexuality as a topic in particular), and history (teaching the upsides of slavery). Whereas they never have any actual examples of the left hating freedom or being communist.
Whereas they never have any actual examples of the left hating freedom or being communist.
Spoken like someone who has never bothered to ask one of them why they think this. You’re just proving my point.
Feel free to provide some examples then, otherwise quit with the both-sides bullshit.
And no, kitty litter in classrooms isn’t a good example
Gun control, higher taxes, more regulations
Trump did more to enact gun control than Biden has thus far or have you forgotten “'Take the guns first, go through due process second”?
But hey, you can’t find it in yourself to rise above that bullshit, I’m not sure I can help you.
If you think the only difference between what Republicans and Democrats are doing with the country right now is a matter of perspective, I’m quite sure I can’t help you.
And yet, it’s apparently more socially acceptable for the MAGA crew to screech and throw feces, and less socially acceptable for rational people of any political stripe to stand up to screeching and feces throwing by pointing out the extent of MAGA lunacy.
You’re right that most of the MAGA crew aren’t “evil, cartoonish Bond minions,” but some of them, especially those at the top, are evil, cartoonish Bond villains. And some of them are minions: right-wing militias, and the rest who stormed the Capitol on Jan 6 sure the hell are. There are more waiting in the wings to take insurrectionist action, above and beyond simple lunacy.
Your second paragraph is a far better take than the comments in the rest of the thread. Trumpers make the same sort of blanketed statements about us, and all it does is create another obstacle to reasonable discourse and increases polarization.
I’m telling people not to sink to their level, even if they continue to do so.
Ok, seriously though, the “they go low, we go high” tactic was incredibly stupid when it was suggested back in 2016, and it’s only gotten more stupid. When you’re playing poker and someone pulls a knife, you’re not playing poker anymore; to pretend otherwise is effectively self-sabotage.
This take is pretty inaccurate. You’re basically trying to say that any criticism of right wingers is unwarranted. Nothing over the top is being expressed in these comments and trying to tell us you’re a trump hating liberal is coming off as disingenuous. Fact is that anyone who is still even considering trump as an option is either a cartoonish bond minion or a complete buffoon.
You’re basically trying to say that any criticism of right wingers is unwarranted.
Nope, not at all, try again.
trying to tell us you’re a trump hating liberal is coming off as disingenuous.
Maybe to you. And that’s your problem. I am what I am and I’m being honest about it. Take a look at my comment history if you’re skeptical, but I really don’t care what you believe.
Cherry picking a comment for points you can argue and not addressing the entire thing, once again, comes off as disingenuous. You also don’t get to decide how you come off to other people. You have no control over how someone will receive your comments. Trying to argue that you don’t come off a certain way shows a complete lack of empathy and understanding. Maybe don’t make blanket statements about people in a thread chain complaining about them making blanket statements. When I got to this thread there was 1 out of 12 comments that could have been interpreted as what you originally complained about, and you are so quick to defend the trump movement that it was the obvious conclusion that you were lying about being a trump hating liberal. All the evidence needed was here already that it didn’t warrant going into your history, and now I won’t even bother because I don’t want to be subjected to bad takes and illogical arguments. Maybe you should take your own advice and try again.
I put people who are overtly, shamelessly, intransigently racist into the “cartoonish evil” bin. Sure, fine, yes - they’re that way largely because of their childhood and how they were raised. But that doesn’t make them less racist, nor does it make them good people. They deserve to be shunned and ridiculed in polite society. And fascists - which now compose a meaningful percentage of the Republican base - deserve far worse than that.
