Thereā€™s definitely some additional nuance (like a pronouns in bio/username situation) but this should cover the broad needs of anyone who is approaching this with good faith.

  • JamesNZ@lemmy.world
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    7 days ago

    This is so rubbish. Almost everyone is a he or she, so just use that. On the very very very rare instance you get it wrong, say sorry and use the correct one from then on. Unless you forget, the appologise again when corrected. Yes I am imply it is on the person who got called the wrong pronoun to correct the one who made the mistake.

    • starman2112@sh.itjust.works
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      7 days ago

      Iā€™ve never met a person in real life who got upset because someone used the wrong pronoun once. Assuming peopleā€™s gender is fine, as long as you donā€™t double down on your assumption when someone corrects you

    • then_three_more@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      Wouldnā€™t it be much easier to use the grammatically well established singular they/them. That way you never run into an issue. Surely youā€™d do that when you encounter a name that can be used as both a female and a male name (Jessie, Les etc)

      • JamesNZ@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        This implies you can not tell the personā€™s gender, which for most people is perfectly obvious. So often can cause offence. I realize not using they/them can also cause offence, but just much less often.

      • abbotsbury@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        grammatically well established singular they/them

        I mean, historically itā€™s well established, but you canā€™t deny that language has evolved in many places (at least in America) that they/them feels plural. Iā€™m not saying they/them shouldnā€™t be gender neutral singular pronouns, but in the dialect I was raised, it only feels correct in indeterminate situations, like ā€œwhoever stole my bike, I hope they get arrested.ā€

        Obviously language can continue to evolve where singular-they feels correct in any scenario, but if youā€™re talking about ā€œmuch easierā€ then that includes the random rules people collectively hallucinate.

      • lazyViking@lemmy.world
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        7 days ago

        If were going from whats Ā«grammatically well establishedĀ» i would argue he/she is a lot more established

        • snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works
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          7 days ago

          Tbh just saying they is easier, took a few weeks/months to train myself to do it and now Iā€™m just cringing whenever I hear something thatā€™s like ā€œhe or she could be doing this thingā€ when ā€œtheyā€ is just more efficient anyway. Theyā€™re just as established. I think ā€œtheyā€ is an older term but Iā€™d have to look into the etymology on that.

          • snugglesthefalse@sh.itjust.works
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            7 days ago

            So Iā€™m not sure how reliable it is given the age of the data but it looks like thereā€™s some indication that ā€œtheyā€ fell in use up to the late 1900s but before ~1860 it was actually more common than now. Iā€™m now curious if thereā€™s any more info on this.

        • then_three_more@lemmy.world
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          7 days ago

          He/She is fine for when you know the gender of someone. When you donā€™t they is really well established - it was used by Chaucer. So they if you donā€™t know because they might go by something else, they for someone with a name like Leslie who could be a he or a she outside of any discussion about trans identities.

    • robador51@lemmy.ml
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      7 days ago

      I tend to agree, but I do get where the other viewpoint comes from. Iā€™m from a country where I donā€™t believe this is a major point of contention, as long as weā€™re respectful with each other I donā€™t think people feel the need to make a big deal out of this, but Iā€™m aware Iā€™m speaking from a bubble here, others may disagree.

      I do work in an international company with many anglophones from the UK and USA, and itā€™s a much bigger point there, to the point certain expressions are banned, e.g. addressing a group as guys. I speculate that itā€™s a bit of a cultural thing, and a language thing. As others mention, a lot of languages are Ill suited to naturally use gender neutrality. English is quite malleable that way.

    • Ziglin (they/them)@lemmy.world
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      7 days ago

      I have a really hard time recognizing peopleā€™s gender so I usually go along with the same pronouns others use and then inevitably feel really bad about it because of how often itā€™s wrong. In languages without an accepted they/them equivalent I just flip flop but in English I really donā€™t understand the need to use he/she unless itā€™s ambiguous whether there are one or more people being spoken about.