A generation’s fault =/= the fault of every individual in that generation
Correct. But climate change is specifically the fault only of this Grandma.
Correct. What many don’t know is that this Grandma used to be an Exxon Executive.
She also burnt our crops, poisoned our water supply and sent a plague unto our houses.
And that grandma’s name? Ronald Reagan.
Ftr industrial era started in 1700s. First car was 1886. Petroleum 1859. First combustible engine 1876. Lead in gasoline was introduced 1920’s(and started getting removed in the 1970s). This Shit was doomed well before Reagan was even born let alone a president or anyone voting for him.
Ok.
If she voted for the cowboy, she’s to blame.
No snowflake thinks they’re responsible for the avalanche
Except it literally is the fault of like 30 people. We can directly pinpoint the cause of the problem onto the actions of specific individuals.
Everyone else could have voted for regulation to prevent them from doing those things. You can’t just expect corporations to not do evil if you allow them to. They’re heavily incentivized by the system to be as evil as possible. The solution is to limit the amount of evil they’re allowed to do.
Money isn’t real. The government isn’t real. Those two things are made real by belief. Everyone made a choice to believe in those two things.
If you spent the 80s working for communist orgs then you’re not guilty, but everyone else who did nothing during Reagan and Thatcher deserves the hate.
Communism isn’t a magic wand to excuse blame.
Grow up and realise communist countries extract and burn petroleum.
The Haudenosaunee did not use petroleum.
How common was petroleum fuel at that time?
It didn’t exist yet. I don’t believe that petroleum fuel existed at the same time as any independent communist society, which contradicts your claims. If you would like to support your claim that some communist civilisation used petroleum, it seems to me you should name a communist society which maintained independence after the industrial revolution.
We may have made that choice, but there are some pretty sure consequences if you don’t go along at least a teeny bit.
No but snowflakes are arguably more equal in their role and function than humans in society are. Powerless people exist, and it’s most people.
In democracies people have the option to vote for people who will regulate businesses. A business will only optimize for profit, if you want them to make environmentally friendly choices you must either make those choices mandatory or profitable. The way to do that is through politics, and people who voted for the avalanche share the blame for it.
But snowflakes literally aren’t responsible for an avalanache. A cow in a stampede has no choice but to follow the herd, it’s the whoever or whatever started the stampede/avalanche that’s responsible.
Except for cows at the edge and back, who could get out.
Which makes a new edge of the herd, which lets more cows out, and all of a sudden the stampede is just one angry bull.
No metaphor is perfect, but I think this one demonstrates rather handily that much of the “stampede” is social pressure that would dissipate rapidly if the people who could leave it did.
I wish people would see it that way. But on Lemmy when it comes to climate change the majority seems to be in favour of not doing anything personally, because it wouldn’t have lot of an impact.
Making jokes about how not using plastic straws is a scam, a vegan diet too hard for the effect it has or how the cars of individuals don’t matter in the greater scheme…
That’s exactly like people in past generations thought as well.
If snowflakes aren’t responsible for an avalanche then what is?
The thing that causes an avalanche, the loud noise or whatever it was.
You could try and blame the snowflake for being there, but even if that was a valid criticism it would only give them limited responsibility for the avalanche happening. Blaming the snowflake is like blaming tinder for the fire, when without the spark no fire would have happened.
An avalanche cannot occur without an outside force acting upon it?
Yes, something needs to trigger it.
Thinking a bit more though, I was only thinking of a snowflake in the avalanche, rather than a snowflake falling on the top causing everything to fall down - like messing up the last card in a house of cards. If that’s what they meant then it makes a little more sense, but still doesn’t really hold true. 90% of all avalanche disasters are triggered by humans.
An avalanche requires that certain types of snowflake form a “weak layer” in the snow. Some snowflakes are kind of smooth on the sides, these don’t have the jagged edges that hook onto other snowflakes. When a force is applied, this weak layer breaks and the snow on top of the layer slides down the slope. A single snowflake will not apply enough force to break the weak layer - the amount of force it applies would be negligible even compared to things like the wind. Something else will trigger the avalanche before a snowflake ever could.
The snowflake provides the conditions for an avalanche, but doesn’t apply the force that triggers it.
That’s because they literally aren’t.
All this rhetoric does is make people feel good about not doing anything, though. If your government is ruining the world and you blithely sit by and even actively vote for that very same government, you are absolutely to blame.
We all have a moral obligation to fight for what’s right, obviously not everyone can be an armed revolutionary but almost everyone can organize and spread knowledge.
Well passing blame to the parallel tangent and doing nothing upstream is still being compliant. That’s this generation’s decision to act this way.
And not voting just to be compliant to a trump monster making shit worse was also this generation’s decision.
This generation will have a lot to answer for until the day they die.
Especially what with their memes like this one boasting inaction while they just sat on their phones blaming the random parallel tangents of generations of people while they do absolutely nothing to face these political issues head on.
Blaming a geriatric in a wheel chair who probably burned more bras than they ever did doesn’t make waves in the political sea. But these people know that cuz they have absolutely no intention of doing anything productive. This meme is just further disappointment of the absolute trash and failure of the current generation inaction. It screams how they refuse to do anything effective. They like their life the way it is. They just don’t want any responsibility of the choices they make that could be different. So it’s just easier for them to pretend it’s the previous generation (each and every person of it) somehow withholding their power of choice.
The oil production sure didn’t help
Yeah but my grandma in the peace corps wasn’t responsible for that
Your correct. The USA is a democratic country and climate change was known about for a while now. So it’s probably more accurate to say that most of the individuals in that generation. Had a responsibility to address it and they didn’t.
Now, I sympathize. A lot of the corporate pressure to do nothing about it back then is still here today. But it doesn’t change the fact that nothing was done.
I am not placing morale judgement on anyone here. Life is hard and complicated and when you have big business working against you it is doubly so. But that doesn’t change the fact that they messed up and it’s causing a lot of damage.
Let’s learn from their mistakes so we don’t mess up in the same way.
I mean, it’s reasonable to say they could have done something and failed to do so. However, when you start to dig into what they could have done, it’s hard to think of anything particularly effective and easy to see why they could have been convinced into inaction. So you could say they made a mistake, but were not fully at fault. The ones at fault are the ones who have been convincing them.
I like to say that responsibility isn’t neatly divided up into percentages. Someone can be fully 100% responsible for something that happened, but other people can have some minor responsibility also. There’s no threshold between being responsible or not, either, it’s a sliding scale. When assigning responsibility and blame it’s important to remember these things.
it’s hard to think of anything particularly effective
A communist revolution. And don’t give me that “they didn’t know” crap, there were communists fighting the good fight back then.
Hey man, I love communism as much as any far left lemmy user, but can you explain how a communist revolution would have impacted climate change?
The primary motive to pollute was the profit motive of fossil fuel companies, and automotive manufacturers. Today, the biggest argument against closing mines is jobs, and the biggest argument for cars is getting to work. A communist system has universal basic income. Better planned neighbourhoods such as the Soviet 15 minute cities would also reduce transport emissions, though the soviets were not communist. There should exist no such thing as mining or energy companies, and under communism, that’s the case.
Hmm. Under communism, even with UBI, people would still have jobs, or hobbies, or would go on road trips or vacations, so you’d still have people driving cars.
I agree that better, more walkable city planning and functional public transit is important for reversing climate change, but lots of people think that, not just communists. I don’t see what a communist revolution has to do with that - even your example is of Soviet cities, not communist cities.
And even if there are not energy companies under communism, there still need to be power plants, electricity would still need to be generated. What about communism would make those power plants be powered by renewables instead of coal?
Isn’t it obvious that a people who work to better society would do more altruistic work?
Grandma must pay for her sins. We might not be able to save the world, but maybe we can avenge it.
I wish she would. But nooooo they are just gonna die while guzzling down her payments, for which I have to work 10 years longer for and will get less no matter what.
I AM SO SICK OF IT
Edit: I don’t want to avenge anything anymore. I am just so tired of this hopeless situation, where no one who could do something, does anything to prevent it.
Maybe avenging some stuff will make you feel less tired.
I wish. People are getting called ecoterrorist already, if they glue themselves to the street and hold up traffic a little. I would have to blow up the government or sth to really make a point. Thats nothing I can do.
Now in cinemas: The Avengers vs Climate Grandma
The world is getting what it had coming. Fuck the earth!
Too many superhero movies for yall.
Hilarious, but in all seriousness let’s leave grandma alone.
We need to punch up and stop infighting.
Seriously. It’s infuriating. It’s exactly because people are so divided by wedge issues that we don’t have progress on this. Governments will keep ignoring climate change (and the global extinction event associated with it) as long as voters don’t make it a high priority.
It’s quite "comedy " because in some places governments are obsessed with green policy which led to closing many nuclear powerplants but now only alternative is fosil fuel because renewables are so inefficient. And also make people to pay renewable fees for ever wat of energy they use. It’s not driven by reason but by feelngs on both sites.
These kids do not actually care. they do not give a shit about what the establishment is doing.
Shell is currently releasing pure death into the air and water (biggest oil spill 2010 - Barack Obama was a voted in president at this time ) and nestle charges for water use (flint water disaster 2014 - - Barack Obama was a voted in president at this time) baby formula was 1974 - (Richard Nixon ) and dupont released c8 into water supply in 1984. - (Ronald Reagan).
these genZ dumb fucks just sit down and whine how their grandma somehow retroactively voted for it with intention back in 1960. Meanwhile this could have been reversed any time in the past 60 years (even the last 15) since but they are intentionally pretending like that was never an option so they can continue their dumb ass dog pile on ancient shit.
No one was expecting grandma to know this in 1960. Grandma had plenty of chances to vote for fixing it any time in the past 60 years but she didn’t give a fuck because she’d be dead anyway. Gen Z didn’t have the votes to fix it, but they have to live with it. They have every right to be upset.
Look at you talk like whatever grandma voted always won. It’s been a bipartisan joke since the beginning and neither side succeeded when they had the chance. Proof that it didnt EVER matter what your grandma voted. You could have had vote pink or purple. Doesn’t matter. Both won at different times, and this shit still happened. It’s a misnomer to even pretend she had the power of vote to change that.
Go back to school and finish your maths.
Chill and stop taking out your stresses on others.
You first: stop taking your shit out on the elderly.
I never said anything about the elderly, maybe stop listening to the voices in your head?
I’m obviously talking about the grandmas who voted in the wrong direction. And they were very much part of the problem. Saying otherwise is taking away their agency. And yes, that includes primaries. It wasn’t a binary lose/lose choice, the people did and do have influence on who ends up on the final ballot.
Old people need to stop first.
Evidently they’re susceptible to the propaganda, and it’s near impossible to change. At least they’ll age out but we can still try
Idk assholes seem to live forever I mean, look at Kissinger.
boomers didn’t make this post.
It’s really not the fault of any individual. Well okay yes it is, but it’s like 200 individuals at the very upper echelons of society.
Are we gonna ignore that literally everyone voted for Reagan in the 80s?
Except based Minnesota? Weird.
So, are we going to do something about that? Did we just whoopsi 200 bad people in the upper echelons of society? I think some systemic analysis is needed.
It’s the fault of many individuals, voting and acting together.
In the US, when you look at the end use of e.g. electricity, 29% of emissions are due to transportation, 30% are industrial, 11% is agriculture, and the other 30% is from commercial and residential.
Over 50% of transportation emissions are cars, SUVs, minivans and pickups. Why? Because the US suburbanized and we bulldozed cities to build wide roads and large parking lots.
That’s partially due to people like Robert Moses, and partially due to things like white flight, Euclidean zoning, single family zoning, etc. The greatest generation, the silent generation and boomers have repeatedly voted for and implemented local NIMBY policies that have resulted in car centric suburban sprawl that’s terrible for the planet.
Yes, but they had no information about the negative aspects of those policies due to marketing and outright lies they were exposed to from propaganda, published by those 200 [hyperbole] people who were actually responsible.
Such a weird take. As if millennials and Gen Z/X would have behaved any different if we were born in grandma’s generation.
And they talk like no one protested in the 1960s about this same stuff during their generation
I mean someone back then was making these anti establishment songs popular:
https://www.denvercenter.org/news-center/protest-songs-of-the-60s-and-70s/
There was definitely an audience.
You’d think with this attitude they think this kind of idea only just started with the current generation. Current gen are sure in for a surprise in the future when the next generation accuse them of compliance. Their time will come. And they allowed Trump. So they will have a ton to answer for cuz they were supposed to know better what with their blaming the previous generation for the exact things he made worse.
And what came of all that? The old adage that when the hippies got older, they became conservatives. What happened to all those people and how did that entire generation become sellouts?
You seem confident that the newer generations will be exactly like the Boomers but there are already sociological studies showing that the are breaking away from the paths the Boomers took, starting with the idea that getting older means being more conservative becoming apocryphal.
Also you’re on some shit if you’re pinning Trump getting elected on Gen Z and Millennials. Most Gen Z wasn’t even of voting age. Most of the electorate were boomers and older Gen X. Also, we have demographic results from that election. It’s definitely not the Millennials and Gen Z who were around and past retirement age in 2016.
Obviously a whole generation didn’t become sellouts. As usual it’s easier to target a group with bigotry when faced with problems out of our direct control. I find this ageism/generational-ism as tiresome as any other flavour of intolerance, and it’s entirely unproductive.
Obviously. But look at the idiot I was replying to in the first place. This guy still thinks it was young white women who voted Trump in.
Is it bad generational statements you don’t like, or is it bad generational statements made about a specific generation?
Yeah, it goes both ways, and young women voting trump in is just factually wrong as you say.
Nope. It was white millennial women who voted him in. And it doesn’t matter cuz trump was president while you were alive. That is the exact logic you’re applying to everyone else, trumpster racist hypocrite.
And no one says you’re like the boomers. You’re way behind them on the protests, you ineffective pimple git.
You got caught spewing bullshit and you know it. There’s a link right there that shows you that you’re wrong and you’ll never acknowledge it. Or maybe you just can’t read.
You don’t seem to be aware of most of the words you’re using so it may be the latter.
Mmk trump lover
God damn your takes are so fucking hot that you are contributing to global warming.
Yea but at least now we can blame it on boomers.
I wonder what things Gen Y through Alpha are doing which will negatively affect Gen Beta through Delta…
Personally I’m setting traps in daycare centres.
This is absolutely true. But goes to show it isn’t the individuals, the judgement based on actions taken.
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Nestle and Shell “yeah Grandma”
I remember when we used to have to squeeze our Halloween costumes over our snowsuits in Canada because it was too cold to go without. I don’t find it that cold anymore. And snow every December. I only ever saw one green Christmas as a kid in the 1980s.
I hate this timeline so much.
Every time there is snow we make damn sure to get our kids outside to enjoy it. I hate to say it out loud but at the rate we’re going I’m not at all certain we’ll still have snow here in a few years. And I’m in Wisconsin, we’re supposed to be part of the frozen north.
Every single year winter gets milder. It snows later and thaws earlier. I have to make sure my sump pump is ready to run year round. We used to ice fish around Thanksgiving. Now I barely get to go ice fishing at all unless I drive north a couple hours.
I mean, I’m fine with these temperatures in October honestly.
Not so much with the ones we had in July and we’ll soon have for the whole summer, though.
Entered the comments looking to correct the narrative. Looks like that work is already done :)
I like Lemmy
Edit: blame the system, not the people bound by the system.
And who, apart from those who came before us created the system?
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The generation before us also had a class divide, and a good deal of them fought against that divide. The average boomer is no more Diane Feinstein than a millennial is Skreli.
I see they allowed it to get wider.
This comment sounds super pompous.
Right? "Entered comments to pass responsibility and blame to someone else.
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No. You blame the people for not fighting the system. Not for being complacent.
Except They did fight the system and protested and in ways and with fortitude like you’ve never seen or heard of in this day and age.
Burning bras was the light part of it. And there’s many anti establishment tunes people still listen to today that we’re made in the 1960s.
The dark part of it was people allowing themselves to be run over by tanks, setting themselves on fire, purposely deforming their bodies by holding an arm up until it dies for 45 yrs.
They weren’t complacent.
My grandma used to say she didn’t give a fuck about climate change because she’s old and she’ll be dead before it destroys the earth. Now she needs the air con to live in summer. I hope she dies of heat stroke.
I too blame this mans grandma
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Because your generation knows only hate. Hate and blame.
found the old person who feels responsible but unable to handle knowing they’re at fault
Well, we learned it from somewhere old fuck.
Yeah, we had really crap parents. Honestly the worst generation of parents to ever exist in history. Just complete garbage human beings.
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Cry some more, bitch
'Round here it hasn’t really ever gotten cold until the day of Halloween for as long as I’ve lived here. It’s always so wild, too. 80-90’s up until the 31st then bam low 50’s to mid 60’s, windy and rainy. Like instead of using a dimmer to gradually change seasons, it’s a binary switch from summer to winter.
Southwest US too? Another 10 days or so and it’ll be nice finally (for like 4 months)
Entirely??
Maybe she was some kinda big oil tycoon.
It’s 34° C here I want to fukin die
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Where I am it’s 35 deg C. It’s second summer going on. Had to start using AC again in the night to be able to sleep.
A friend told me some trees are blooming in Milan
Where tf is that?
It’s cold in Canada too, well about 10 degrees. Not quite frost but definitely chilly. The dog needs his coat this week. Hello to you in Poland.
I really miss warm weather
it’s supposed to be 90°F next week 😭😭😭
Even if it’s not as cold, going from 120 for weeks to 80 suddenly makes me feel like I’m fucking freezing all the time.
