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" Here sweetie. Play with this nice green round toy and don’t worry anymore. "
Did none of the commenters read the sixth point?
That’s why negative news sells so well.
You just have to have a good rage bait title and can write literally anything under it and the discussion will be about fantasies manifested in peoples heads based on the title.
Sooo many commenters missed the last line apparently. It’s wild.
Really looks like that haha
Most probably just read the title, saw the list and thought that’s too much reading
How is that possible? Is that a fake post, never posted to r/linuxsucks101 or has the mod there not read to paint 6 either?
OP’s joke sadly isn’t completely wrong. Some of these are actual pain points on Linux:
Theming is a mess on Linux the moment you mix QT and GTK (and that is pretty common as not everything exists for each toolkit).
File explorers are notoriously shit compared to the Windows Explorer which works well and intuitively for most users (including me). I use PCManFM-Qt now. But I tried a lot before finding this rough gem. And it still does crash once per quarter and often switches to the root folder collapsing the tree when sub folder content changes.
The freedom of choice is indeed bought with the burden of choice on Linux. There are usually multiple choices when searching for a new application. Usually most of them are crap. Some are barely usable. And one or two are actually somewhat production ready. When you’re new to the ecosystem, it’s impossible to know what to look for. Inexperienced users better describe their use case to AI and have it generate a nice overview of options with pros and cons because traditional web search is pretty dead by now.
I play on Gentoo btw.
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As much as people hate on Windows, Microsoft very clearly put their software in front of people to learn where the pain points are and fix them. Maybe Linux desktops should do likewise because some of them are a usability joke and it hurts uptake. I was playing around with Ubuntu 26.x with KDE last night and there is so much noise and grit in the UI I wonder what is going on with it.
They put it in front of kids in schools to get them used to it so they could sell more copies of windows. Don’t act like it’s some sort of altruism.
Microsoft put their software in front of people who want to use it to do stuff. They ask them to copy a file, launch a program, select something and copy/paste etc. and they observe their reactions, how long it takes them to find & do the thing. Then they focus on where the people had issues and try to simplify the flow, rinse and repeat.
I would never say Microsoft puts in as much effort to UX as Apple, they still put a fuck tonne more in than any Linux dist. Even GNOME. And the KDE desktop is a dog’s dinner despite basically copying Windows and trying to play the same tune without understanding the notes.
Unpopular opinion but KDE is a usability nightmare. Mate, Cinnamon or XFCE are much better in this regard.
The best I can say about KDE is they’re not as bad as they once were. But even today the KDE human interface guidelines essentially say “do not hide options or move them to advanced dialogs”. It’s no wonder that KDE Plasma is dogshit from a usability standpoint even when it mimics Windows. There is nobody at the wheel controlling it and it shows.
had us in the first half ngl
To be fair I have done all of those to Linux PCs. Who here has never blown up a Linux install? Ubuntu is not even immune to tinkering.
I just rebased my install of Aurora to Kinonite, which I had rebased from Kinonite this morning. Simply because I had nothing better to do while waiting for my first cup of tea, and it seemed like a fun idea.
So, suck it Linux! I do want I want!
The most obvious bait to be was 1 hour install time. Windows 11 took 2 hours to install, CachyOS took like 5 minutes. I imagine Arch is similar, there is simply no way. Lol
The biggest fucking lie
Updating. Do not turn of computer.
100% complete
Also: “Update and shut down”
Did you say “update and shutdown while also rebooting?”
Coming back to my PC and it being on when I expect it off, along with the notification that I hadn’t used notifications in a while, is what pushed me over the edge to running linux for everything.
I believe they have fixed it but it was way too many times I had to click Update and shutdown and it would update and restart. Both home and work.
Solidworks/PDM at work. 🙄
No it won’t be changing until Win11 actually breaks or dassault scraps PDM(actually as much or more of a trashfire as windows). I’ll just find a new career eventually.
It took me a bit to figure out, but winapps might work for you. A couple of applications I use at work require me to have a windows VM, which is still way less of a headache than straight windows.
Thanks for looking out but sadly it’s a company owned laptop administered by IT.
On my work laptop I boot to Aurora Linux from an USBC caddy with an M2 SSD inside. The laptop’s internal drive is still factory fresh.
Ask your IT guy, he might be cool with that. The laptop itself is unchanged. Windows OEM license untouched.
This right here is exclusively why I had a scheduled event on my windows system, where if the computer was still on at 4 in the morning, it would turn itself off.
I never had this issue prior to Windows 10, but update and shutdown felt like an update and maybe shut down because there was a good 20 or 30% chance that when it rebooted to apply the changes, it didn’t turn itself back off again.
I must have had rotten luck because whenever I updated Windows, it would never shut down for me. Eventually, I just stopped using ‘update and shut down’.
Yeah, I had more issues with Windows deciding to shut down without updating than having it not shut down after updating.
Like that would drive me crazy to have checked for updates, have it say your updates are ready to install, press the reboot now button, and it decides that for whatever reason it didn’t want to install the pending updates.
That’s apparently fixed now. I have to use windows for work and they finally fixed that stupid issue in one of the last couple of updates. It’s still extremely painful to use though.
Everytime I setup a fresh install for whatever reason, I am reminded about how terrible the experience is😂
I use win only at work anymore, no choice. Update and shut down is the biggest fucking lie. I press it every time, it never did shut down.
Every. Time.
“…in geological terms.”
I remember installing Arch on an ancient MacBook I’ve got. Set the installer going then put it to one side knowing it was going to take a while.
It took about 7 minutes.
Of course, I then spent two hours trying to get the fucking Broadcom drivers to work, but that’s by the by.
Sounds like me with my eee-PC going through a good chunk of troubleshooting just to find out the reason why Wi-Fi drivers aren’t working is because it’s a 32-bit system and the arch project as a whole decommissioned 32-bit.
They have a dedicated 32-bit system branch, but still wifi driver support on it sucks.
I recently figured out that Windows installs can go way faster if you have a slightly better USB stick. I bought an Intenso High Speed Line 64 GB for 10.90€ and it cut down the time by half or even two thirds I would say.
Of course I try to avoid installing Windows in the first place, but I’m not just working on my own machines.
Sure, and Internet speeds probably matter a bit too. The download part was a bit faster than I remember, but then it hung up on the later parts for a while. Lol
No offense, but what are you installing it on? One of the things I oversee at my job is imaging. Installing fresh windows on any of our hardware is between 7 and 15 minutes total. Since windows 10 I also haven’t seen any need for additional drivers either unless you have something uncommon or want to replace one. Not trying to defend Windows, I just can’t understand how everyone always has the worst problems imaginable with it.
In the case I’m referencing, I was installing Windows 11 for a five year old gaming computer using the Windows 10 upgrade software, no USB or anything like that.
Technically I was going to use a custom USB made with Rufus to remove copilot, but by the time I got there they had already started the upgrade process. It really did take two hours, including the 15 minutes before I got there.
The vast majority of computer users with those kinds of issues are
- probably using windows home
- On a big box store computer with a platter drive
- an i3 cpu
- and 8gb of ram
windows 10 couldn’t reliably run it’s own bundled software (Mail), by itself, with nothing else open, without that one app going “not responding” every few minutes on a computer with those specs.
Last time i checked, Walmart, best buy, costco, etc were still selling those specs with win11 which is notably bulkier and slower than 10, especially without an ssd, so things have only gotten worse for the average non-power-user.
That’s a perfectly servicible spec for basic operations on a mint install, you could probably even watch netflix or youtube on it with linux, but i wouldn’t want to run windows newer than xp on it.
It doesn’t help that big box retail stores are scam artists.
That was one of the things I hated about Walmart was they would sell these super cheap systems that I kid you not would crash on the demo software.
Like we had an HP flip-style laptop that they sold for $130 a few years back. And it was so bad that we intentionally ran it under a default account instead of a demo account. Because if we installed the demo software on it, Windows would run out of space and blue screen about time windows tried to update it.
Admitting that works, then you’ve only got windows. You still have to install all the tools and productivity software. On any distribution, all that stuff gets installed as a matter of fact, and you’re basically done after 20 minutes or so.
They added a feature to archinstall that times your install and tells you how much it took. My record is 3 minutes, and it wasn’t even on a super powerful gaming computer or anything (it was a lenovo ideapad 5 laptop)
Windows 11 took me 7 hours over 3 different days. Had to start and stop multiple times, had to retry multiple times, had to post support requests and wait, and to dive into bios because default settings that worked fine with Linux were making windows kill itself.
Oh yeah, my first try was downloading a Windows ISO and using KDE writer to put it on a USB, BIG mistake because we all know that windows sabotages their ISOs so that you can only burn them with a windows burner program.
Even when it finally worked, it still took a goddamn 2 hours and so many ads, so many “please also buy this!”
Once it was done I had setup windows with steam for my step son and then he didn’t use the machine anyway
Arch install time is mostly user dependent Id say
Lots of options and you’ll need to spend some time RTFM. But if you already know how you want to partition your disks, then the basic installation (with a network controller!) takes about two minutes.
Then you can restart into the cli, and the real questions - what else am I going to install? - can begin.
That was exactly where I was like, “huh”? Cause Cachy took hardly any time to install and windows is notoriously slow.
I mean if you dont know jack shit about linux or arch and try to follow the guide I’d imagine it could take you quite a while. It took me a while at least.
I did hear Arch is a bit more trouble, yeah. CachyOS was pretty straightforward from desktop environment to automatically detecting hardware and such. Pretty much the same features you see with Windows, just a lot faster.
The built in “app stores” that come on Linux distros are also complete jokes, the ones I’ve tried to use anyways.
Not a fan of KDE Discover. Bazaar looks promising.
Snap store can get the hell outta here.
Discover is ok… If you limit it to only managing Flatpaks.
I’m not sure I’d ever trust a GUI to manage pacman/apt/dnf
I’m gonna be honest, 99% of what I need to do, I do through Discover. Like, why would I bother typing a command out when the update button is right there.
My discover casually uses 1gb of ram when i open it and after closing it stays at 500mb until i sigterm it
Synaptic is decent, but it doesn’t exactly feel like an “App Store”.
I think Flatpaks are the future for general user installed apps. It’s way more secure and user friendly for non tech people. I’ve even had some flatpaks run significantly better, like Brave, despite conventional wisdom saying otherwise for a browser.
this sane comment seems so hard for many Linix users to understand. I use LMDE, i want to click the icon on my toolbar and have zero interest in the OS itself
CachyOS now doesn’t even ship with Discover and if you install it there’s a banner warning you not to use it to update base packages as it can mess stuff up.
CachyOS now ships with and recommends Shelly, and just from trying to use it I get the feeling it’s fundamentally flawed (both in the front-end and back-end), but I don’t know enough about package management to know for certain.
Oh wild. I still just hit Cachy Update, because I don’t like Octopi, but I should try that out.
Tho I was considering giving NixOS a try
I was wondering about Shelly when I was reading the release notes for Cachy. What do you feel is flawed?
If you’re in the CachyOS Discord and have a lot of patience, this is where I dumped all of my complaints and feedback on the day that I really tried to use it: https://discord.com/channels/862292009423470592/1500254688380063934
Keep in mind I was pretty new to Cachy/Arch and coming from Linux Mint, make of that what you will.
More specifically, this is what raised the alarm for me: https://discord.com/channels/862292009423470592/1500254688380063934/1500507281840668852 and following messages.
Basically, I tried to install
openrgb-next-gitfrom AUR using Shelly. The operation failed but was reported as successful. And the Shelly dev I was chatting with didn’t really seem to acknowledge the severity of the issue. After many more attempts, I eventually gave up on Shelly installed the package using paru. I don’t remember if there was any problem during that installation, but it did get installed in the end, which is more than I can say for Shelly.This exchange was 2 months ago, so it’s possible that things have improved since then, but that’s not enough time for me to give Shelly another chance yet.
What I’m about to say is pure speculation, and I have no concrete evidence, just my gut: I think Shelly, or at least its GUI, is vibe-coded. Too many things about it are half-baked but with the appearance of polish. Windows and dialogs that look pretty but are too small for their contents. No way a human developer would push that if it was tested even once.
A Shelly developer explained to me that it’s not a wrapper for pacman or any other tool, instead they re-implement the functionality provided by pacman using a lower-level library. To this I say: Shelly has not earned my trust in their code to manage packages on my main PC. When it’s more mature, when it has more eyes on it, and when it doesn’t give me the half-baked vibe, I’ll happily give it another chance.
updates, sure. let discover or gnome software do 'em.
my debian won’t break the system.
to install, though? i’d rather see exactly what’s going on. i don’t always want to bring in every tom, dick and recommend. i use aptitude.
I actually like both Bazaar and discover. I enjoy using them to just browse for interesting apps. For linux to ever become adoptable for more people, good GUIs are absolute must haves. If you don’t like them that is of course fine, but it serves the greater good to have the option of using them.
I’ve been using Baazar and like it very much! I find most things that I’m looking for.
Bazaar is the best app store for normies on Linux hands down.
Oh good. I fucking hate the snap store and thought it was my incompetence making it terrible, but here’s at least one other
You don’t compile everything from code yourself? Amateur. /s
I don’t know about you but I start an entirely new FOSS project every time I need some functionality that doesn’t come with the base OS.
The mint one takes like 2 minutes to start…
I gave you installed 1 soft with it, absolutely not simpler in any way.
But, I bet it will only (albeit slowly) be getting better, not worse!
Why and which did you use? I haven’t had an issue with KDE Discover. Pop Shop was ass a few years back but it works well now that it is “Cosmic Store”.
The GNOME one that comes with Debian is useless. There’s like 3 things on it and of course they’re all out of date (Debian thing). It also doesn’t work to uninstall applications. The Ubuntu one of course pushes snaps so it’s no good. The Mint one likewise pushes flatpaks. In general across all of them there never seems to be much listed on them, so going there to browse isn’t useful. I can’t think of any other specific issues but just in general over the past 8 years they are always buggy and annoying to use.
I haven’t used KDE’s store before.
The Gnome store on Debian worked pretty okay for me, though it is a bit slow and always like, reloads the page you’re on after installing something, which is annoying. It uninstalled apps fine, AFAICT.
It had access to the entire Debian repo for me, so I’m not sure why only 3 things were showing up for you.
The Mint store has flathub enabled by default, but you can flip it off in the preferences. If flathub is enabled, it’s show both the flatpak and the native version from the repos, if available, allowing you to choose.
I prefer flatpaks so Mint’s is OK by me, but admittedly I have yet to actually daily drive Mint. Fair enough on the rest.
The Mint one likewise pushes flatpaks.
Most packages in Mint you can download from the system repo. You don’t have to use flatpacks. I have my LMDE set to show only system packages since i’m not a fan of flatpacks.
Debian (GNOME) has a flatpak plugin that allows the app store to use flatpaks. They got a lot of stuff there.
Truth. Fortunately updating and installing via command line is so easy and quick that I rarely feel the need to use Discover.
The Linux Mint store has been the best IMO. Perhaps one day Cosmic’s store will out do it.
The Internet is my app store.
Who needs app stores anyway
Software is files, idgaf where they come from
Linux software repos can usually be trusted to a far greater degree, and never come with odd malware toolbars or weird 3rd party ‘downloaders’ like windows install wizards can come with.
Yea and I never accidentally installed mcaffe when running apt install…
Yeah that’s my only real complaint about Linux. I miss the ease of just downloading an exe and double clicking it
Ironically I liked Chocolatey package manager on Windows. Hitting update and everything just updates is great. I hate launching a program and it’s like “here’s an update you need to do before using this and if you kick it down the road you’ll forget about it till next time you launch me”
You can technically do that but app images have their own issues.
You can also download and double click executables that have no dependencies (like Pocketbase). The installation process handles resolving dependencies.
Oh that’s pretty cool I didn’t realize that.
Windows’ “app store” is a joke but that’s a good thing.
Winget and scoop are adequate, but those are probably catering to 1% of Windows users.
Only 1% of users should be using something else.
(Add chocolatey to your list)
Had the same experience when installing Win 11 from USB boot medium. Wifi and ethernet didn’t work. About 8 drivers missing. Never had that with any Linux distro. The difference is that normally MS users get their systems preinstalled.
They don’t even know about the MS driver issues. And the admins installing It are saying no big difference in general, depends on hardware chosen.
If you want Linux you first have to learn how to install an OS like an admin and how to get rid of the damn MS Anti-Linux boot prevention, which is always hidden in different menus on every fucking mainboard.
Sorry, Linux used to be so easy to install a few years ago. You still can be quite lucky if you buy a PC without any OS installed, than the UEFI settings are most of the time quite friendly.
Or buy a preinstalled Linux machine like most MS fanboys do. Or what about an install party at the local Linux User Group?
I use Debian, Cachy and Parabola BTW
I’m pretty sure laptops without an OS or with Linux pre-installed aren’t available in most countries
Interesting question. Dell and Lenovo are shipping to many Countries.
I don’t know about Framework, System 76, Tuxedo, Purism, Nova. Yes could be an issue, would be interesting to research some statistics about this, but I have no time.
Then the users really would have to learn installing and changing UEFI settings by themselves. Organizing in local Linux User Groups is I think the best idea. Or why not MS User Groups but I don’t plan to join these.
I know this is satire but Arch is like the worst distro for a newbie…
Not for a newbie who wants to learn. Arch is actually not difficult at all, just time consuming. If you do a manual install, you have to read about every step and make choices.
Thats how you learn your system. After install, you know exactly what files you modified and where they are if you want to make further changes.
I think it’s a beautiful system. Its not for people who just want a windows replacement though. It’s for people who wants to know their system.
People don’t realize the power that comes from actually knowing how your system works. It’s the same as learning any skill. It gives a feeling of confidence and comfort.
I just bought a laptop with windows 11 on it and I’m currently working my way through installing arch. I’ve been using Bazzite for a while on my desktop now but I still don’t really understand a lot of the systems so I’m wanting to really dig in to it and understand why things are installed and where they are and stuff.
It’s so much fun. Arch wiki is amazing.
Not for a newbie who wants to learn. Arch is actually not difficult at all, just time consuming.
Yeah but that is an issue. It’s perfectly legitimate to want stuff to just work and get to what I want to do.
You kinda implying I have a character defect for “not wanting to learn” lol. Humanity actually needs an easy to use open operating system.
Also I assume most of the reasons for why an OS does the things they way it does is tech debt lol.
No I didn’t mean it that way. Ok, I’ll put it in other words. Certain people have an interest in specific things. I am interested in how Linux works, but I dont care how my car works, or how politics works. It’s just a personal instinct what we like.
And I meant that for people with my interest, arch is great. Its absolutely wrong for more than 99% of humans. But some likes it.
Humanity actually needs an easy to use open operating system.
Humanity already has Linux, and it’s taken over pretty much every computing sector.
Does it have to be “easy”? I think that’s a matter for the desktop interfaces and whoever is choosing to support them, not Linux itself.
An OS is serious business and requires a certain level of savvy from its contributors. And conversely people who are not contributors should not shape its development.
Besides, people who aren’t computer-savvy aren’t going to turn savvy just because of an easy installer. If you cater to the lowest common denominator you’d just be dragging the whole thing down.
If you don’t care about desktop adoption and the synergy effect on the overall desktop software, then no, it doesn’t have to be easy lol. All right then, keep your secrets.
I do think certain “elitist” attitudes bleed into the technical decision making. Programmers tend to see the beauty in the system architecture and it becomes it’s own value.
Be that as it may, FOSS tends to be a meritocracy and it takes some skill to contribute to it. Contributors are driven by seeking solutions to their own problems. There’s no incentive to cater to any particular user demographic. There’s a big gap between those programmers in their ivory towers and any practical application.
That gap is filled by commercial interests. And in this particular market, the PC desktop, there’s a company called Microsoft with huge resources and a vested interest in not allowing any competition. For 20 years now nobody has managed to break their stranglehold on the PC desktop. Companies like Apple and Google managed to bypass the problem by creating completely new, alternative platforms.
The elitism of a handful of nerds is the least of the issues preventing Linux on the desktop.
Yes and architects tends to see beauty in buildings, gardeners in gardens, chefs in cooking.
It depends.
in-VM test drive? By all means, yes. Have fun
as main OS? Detecting multiple leviathan class lifeforms in the region. Are you certain whatever you’re doing is worth it?
Yes it’s worth it many times over. I learned Linux on arch like 15 years ago. :) Its been paying off enormously during my career and private hobby life. Last windows I ran at home was windows 7.
Glad to know. Still, it’s not something I’d recommend to someone who hasn’t tried Linux before.
No I agree, unless they are interested in learning.
Literally 1984 (sorry, had to)
I’ve gotten this comment 10 times over the last year or so. :)
Depends on the newbie, if the person has some terminal experience it’s ok. If it’s an ipad kid, it’s going to be tough, there’s a lot of new abstraction to understand at every step.
It’s not just ipad kids. Those who just want to work and not mess with the system are better off with Mint or Zorin. If you have to google how to install VLC then an OS has already lost for productivity.
But that’s how you learn though, and the ability to know how to type shit in a box is a good skill to have if you have a computer.
And ironically, AI fixes almost all these problems. Just pull up Deep Seek, drop in whatever the console throws at you and you can get back the answer free of charge. These days the hardest part of bash is remembering that Ctrl+V should be Shift+Ctrl+V.
Don’t, under any circumstances, do that. This is an anti-advice.
Mint and Zorin have been flawless for me.
Installing Mint on my laptop actually fixed a longstanding issue with the speakers. They were working fine for ages on Wibdows, then some reason they just stopped working. Windows could not detect any speakers. It was to a point that I assumed hardware failure, and opened the laptop and traced the audio output to identify a blown sm cap or something, then gave up. It wasn’t until I installed Mint and it made a startup noise that I was like “wtf” because I thought it would never speak again. Turns out windows was just borked.
Installing Zorin on an old thinkcentre desktop just worked perfectly, despite my deep suspicion. I got it set up to meet my workflow perfectly in less time than I would have spent reinstalling windows and getting it dialed in just the way I like.
Is Arch “better”? Maybe, to some people. Could I make it work? It’s possible? Instead of tweaking arch to meet my requirements, could I rather spend my free time gardening or patting the cat? Absolutely.
Depends what kind of newbie. To the right kind of nerd a well-organized technical installer is not a deterrent, on the contrary.
I don’t think people realise that most Linux distros had arcane install processes not unlike Arch until around 2000, when a few of them started introducing simplified graphical installers (Corel, Caldera and Red Hat’s Anaconda I think were most popular). Debian for instance only switched to graphical in 2006 with Etch beta 3 (although tbf they did have a text-mode UI before that).
Worse than NixOS?
Nah. Arch is not noob friendly per se but with CachyOS installing and getting most of what you need to run is very easy. Experience with Steam and Proton is painless. Things can get harder when you are starting to dig deeper.
My experience with Nixos was 90% editing config files, 10% trying to play any game and failing.
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They had us in the first 83%.
Q: How do I solve this problem in Windows?
A: Oh, I have no problem, have you tried reinstalling?
Q: How do I solve this problem in <distro> Linux?
A: I use <otherdistro> Linux, why not use that?
My Ubuntu mini PC still doesn’t play videos with hardware acceleration from Firefox. Absolutely given up with it. Probably something to do with Snaps which can go and fuck themselves.
Don’t use ubuntu. That said - on debian it’d probably be a non-free codecs package? VLC also comes with a good set of additional codecs IIRC.
Debian is much more friendly today
#2 gave it away because you’d have to royally screw something up in Arch to get KDE to lag like that lol.
It might be minimalist but it’s not unperformant out of box.
The only time i had issues with KDE when i was using a PC with 384 MB RAM (plasma 4)
I wouldnt blame that on kde
And KDE Plasma isn’t even one of the lightweight desktop environments. It’s honestly impressive how sluggish Microsoft made Windows feel.
It still had a pretty low requirement for ram… like 500Mb or so. I solved it switching, first to xfce4, which i loved and later on with i3wm whoch i believe asks like <4Mb. I may be wrong
That’s crazy. Nowadays I mainly use sway (tiling wm requiring loads of configuration, definitely not for everyone), which I thought was lightweight as well. But I just checked and it’s using a whole 500MB, wonder what it needs that for.
